.jpg)
Thinking Inside the Box
A show where we discuss innovative ways organizations, and their leaders overcome complex issues at work
Thinking Inside the Box
HR’s Role in the Future of Work - Enrique Rubio
In today’s episode, I chat with Enrique Rubio, HR, Tech and Future of Work expert, keynote speaker and founder of Hacking HR, a global learning community at the intersection of future of work, technology, business and organizations, with thousands of members of all over the world. Enrique is also the Head of Global Community at Transform.
Enrique and I have been friends for many years now. We met in the days before the pandemic, and found easy alignment with our shared passion for making a difference.
In the years since, we’ve individually branched out while remaining connected through events, LinkedIn and the occasional video chat. This discussion, like many before it, addresses the future of work and HR’s role in defining it. Though we also explored Enrique’s origin story, including his time in the corporate world, and how HackingHR was formed.
It was another in a line of memorable discussions with a good friend. And I hope you enjoy this as much as we did recording it.
Enrique Rubio
Enrique is an HR, Tech and Future of Work expert, keynote speaker and founder of Hacking HR, a global learning community at the intersection of future of work, technology, business and organizations, with thousands of members of all over the world, and also the Head of Global Community at Transform.
Enrique is one of the top 100 HR global influencers. He was the founder and CEO at Management Consultants, a firmed specialized in Human Resources in Venezuela. Before Management Consultants, Enrique worked in the telecommunications sector as a Senior Project Engineer for Telefonica and several other companies in the early to mid-2000s. Enrique is a guest author in several blogs about innovation, management and human resources. Most recently Enrique worked as an advisor to the Chief Human Resources Officer at the Inter-American Development Bank.
Enrique currently leads Hacking HR, one of the fastest growing communities of HR leaders around the world. Enrique frequently speaks about topics ranging from DEIB, future of work, HR strategy, employee experience, among others, drawing on Hacking HR’s research. Additionally, Enrique designs hundreds of learning programs for the Hacking HR community in the form of events and short-term programs.
Enrique is a Fulbright Scholar, and Electronic Engineer with an Executive Master’s in Public Administration from Maxwell School at Syracuse University.
Thinking Inside the Box
Constraints drive innovation. We tackle the most complex issues related to work & culture. And if you enjoy the work we’re doing here, consider giving us a 5-star rating, leaving a comment & subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content & really helps amplify our message.
Matt
Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.
Enrique Rubio: And, um, this is particularly true for HR too, because as we progress with technology, technology will do more of the transactional work that we are doing today. And as technology does more of that transactional work, I am hoping that we don't fill it up with more transactional work that now we start doing more transformational work. The value will be created in the opportunities that we are maximizing for our company, or in how we're solving complex problems that we have that go way beyond the transaction.
Matt Burns: Strive innovation. Hey everyone, it's Matt, here for another episode of Thinking Inside The Box, a show where we discuss the innovative ways organizations and their leaders overcome complex issues at work. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us at our shiny new website, insidetheboxpodcast.com and on all of your favorite podcast platforms by searching Thinking Inside the Box. And if you enjoy the work we're doing here, consider leaving us a five star rating, a comment and subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our message. In today's episode, I chat with Enrique Rubio, HR Tech and Future of Work expert, keynote speaker, and the founder of Hacking HR, a global learning community at the intersection of the future of work, technology, business and organizations. With hundreds of thousands of members all over the world. Enrique is also the head of Global Community at uh, Transform. Beyond all this, we've been friends for many years. We met in the days long before the Pandemic, when Hacking HR was just getting off the ground and found easy alignment with our shared passion for making a difference. And in the years since, we've individually branched out while also remaining connected through events, LinkedIn and the occasional video chat. And this discussion, like many before it, talks about things such as the future of Work and HR's role in defining it. Though we also explored Enrique's origin story, including his time in the corporate world and how Hacking HR was formed. Some things that even I didn't know, even after all these years as his friend. And it was another in a long line of memorable discussions. And I hope you enjoy as much as we did recording it now, I bring you Enrique Rubio. Enrique Rubio. How are you doing today?
Enrique Rubio: What up? What up? What up, brother? I'm good, how are you?
Matt Burns: It's been a while. I feel like we just talked, but also that it's been a really long time since we talked. Um, last I heard, you were in the East Coast, around Washington. What took you? Uh, out east?
Enrique Rubio: I was there temporarily in my old, kind of like, neighborhoods, but I went there to support SAP and their Federal Forum event. I was hosting their, um, HXM human experience session. Great conversations about all the things that government is doing with technology in the HR space. Very exciting because we generally think that government moves a little slower, which is true, but that they may not be necessarily doing a lot of innovative things. And that would not be true, because they are doing a lot of good things, even at the pace that they can move because of stakeholders and scrutiny and all the things, uh, going on. But, um, it was very exciting. So that's why I went to the East Coast. I was there in Washington, and then I came back home immediately. I become a homeboy man. I live in Flaxseed, northern Arizona. If any of your listeners know where this is, we are about, ah, an hour away from the Grand Canyon. We are at elevation 7000ft surround. The city is built in the forest, in the Coconut International Forest, which is fantastic because temperature here is awesome all year long. So I really became a homeboy, and I like being here.
Matt Burns: And you like running?
Enrique Rubio: I don't like traveling anymore. Yeah, of course I'm running all the time, but I don't like traveling anymore. I think I want to be home maybe four or five times to some conferences and different things, but then immediately back home.
Matt Burns: Yeah, I think the world is kind of moving to that space, too. I think we're all getting to a, uh, place now where technology becomes the primary interface for a lot of interactions. You mentioned the conference that's in Washington. I'm curious, what were some of the things that you heard in terms of trends, or you mentioned innovations happening in the public service space, something maybe you can share with the group in terms of what things you saw or heard?
Enrique Rubio: Yeah, ah, perhaps the top thing of all the things that I've heard, perhaps the top one was how the government is thinking about skills and, um, reskilling and upskilling to ensure preparedness, especially in the arm, um, in the military sectors, right. Where you need to have a workforce that is completely ready with the right skills for combat preparation, but also for all the strategic work they need to do for those who work in actual offices. So very exciting to hear about how they are kind of like getting their different agencies and departments ready for the upskilling and reskilling kind of trend. And the other one was, uh, on how they are bringing now artificial intelligence, uh, on board. Right. I mean, it takes more time for them, particularly because there's a security issue that if you're going to bring artificial intelligence, I don't know, uh, to, uh, a Secret Service agents agency, it cannot be Chat GPT, right. It has to be something that really ensures maximum security for people's, data and, uh, all those things. But what they said was, we are doing some experiments with artificial intelligence in different sectors and then finding ways to amplify from there. In the private sector, you hear everybody's riding on the wave of artificial intelligence. You may think, well, maybe government will catch up in 50 years from now. But the reality is that many agencies have some people in their teams doing some of this research work and finding ways to kind of take advantage of all the opportunities from artificial intelligence while simultaneously preserving all the important things that need to be preserved in government. From a budget perspective, from a security perspective, uh, from a governance and safety perspective. So that was very exciting to hear.
Matt Burns: It's really interesting, because I think of all the industries out there, uh, I uh, would put the public service at the top or near the top of industries that will benefit most from artificial intelligence.
Enrique Rubio: Absolutely.
Matt Burns: Because to my way of thinking, where it has the biggest application are in industries where there's a lot of information that's latent, that's hard to surface, and where you benefit from a shorter path to an answer, conclusion, and insight. So I think about public service, I think about the legal sector, I think about healthcare, I think about financial services. That education, where you want to have that shorter path to information. And I think you're right. I think there's a lot of innovation happening within the public sector. And I also think that the criticism about the public sector around its slow rate of change is oftentimes well earned. I contrast that, though, with and I know you and I have had this conversation offline, but I recently had on the podcast SIM sikut, who was the former CIO of the government of Estonia, which is doing incredibly innovative things for its citizens using technology. And I think I've gained a greater appreciation over the last couple of years, uh, in particular with the pandemic and more interaction with our institutions to have a sense of we can use technology more effectively in interacting with each other with society. Whether it's simple things like paying your property taxes or applying for a driver's license and all the things that today feel like a chore when you compare them against how easy it is to give Amazon our money, for example. One click and you can put things in your cart and all of a sudden Jeff Bezos gets your 49 99. But I think from the perspective of the public service, I think it'd be a welcome change to see some innovation in a space where certainly the tools that we as citizens interact with aren't great. I can only imagine the tools that the employees in those organizations work with can't be any better. Um, they could. Obviously, uh, I'm sure you heard lots of things about some of the challenges and some of the pain points for employees in those environments as well.
Enrique Rubio: Well, in fact, one of the stories was, uh, that one of the presenters shared was our employees. They have like about 25,000 employees, and they were like, well, all these people use Amazon or Uber or Lyft, or Spotify or whatever it is, right? And um, as a consumer and as a user of other platforms, they are always one or two clicks away from what they want to achieve, right? I mean, you want to get a taxi two clicks away in Uber or Lyft. You want to buy whatever you want to buy in the world, you're one or two clicks away on Amazon and then they come to work. And then it is 200 clicks to get one thing done. But what happens is that we became a little spoiled because of these companies have created in us, uh, a sense of urgency when there may be no urgency all the time, but they created in us a sense of urgency of getting things quickly, of getting an immediate answer to what we're asking for. And then you come to work and then you're not getting the same kind of service. And um, by the way, sometimes this is even true for those very companies, right? I mean, inside, their employees have to go through 100 clicks to do something that the people that they are serving as a company, they do it in two clicks, right? So anyway, all I'm saying here is that the expectation now is that our companies will provide us services as employees the same way that they are providing services to the clients they have. And um, that expectation will be very hard to realize, uh, at least in the public sector. Not because they don't want to do it, just because there's a scrutiny that is very different from a private sector, right? I mean, it's not that you can go and say, I'm going to spend x amount of money in doing this. Every cent has to go through the government planning, the Congress and appropriations and all the different things, right? And you want to make sure that you're using the money properly because it's our money. At the end of the day, I just think that the opportunities are phenomenal for government to truly go all in with technology. First, because they will be responding to talent needs, for example, that no human will be able to fill in just because there are either not enough humans to do the work, or not enough humans that want to do that work or have the skills to do that work. So number one, but number two, imagine, like you said before, imagine if instead of having to go through all these hurdles to get your driver's license, you have an AI, uh, assistant guiding you through the entire process, ensuring security and ensuring that you know everything. You probably will be saving taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars by doing that through technology, rather than having to go to the freaking DMV to get your driver's license. So anyway, I think the opportunities for all companies and all agencies in both private and public sector are phenomenal with technology. I do know you just have to keep in the balance the uh, safety, security data, privacy confidentiality, I mean, the security of our country and all these things with the services that you will provide. I know it's possible. And I think these folks that are in government, they are figuring out how to do it, but they are already on that bandwagon, even though it moves a little slower than in the private sector.
Matt Burns: Well, I think that democratizing factor of artificial intelligence, to your point, is going to shorten the gap or narrow the gap between the services that companies or institutions have traditionally provided externally than those that they provided internally. And I understand why. And you and I both have worked in HR before, we both worked in the public service before. So we have an understanding of how kind of the machine works. And a lot of the frustration points that exist in organizations today are going to be solved with things like, to your point, copilots, intelligent search, personalized learning pathways. Just the ability to interact with information in a completely different way is going to free up a lot of time. What I get excited about and what I guess I'm looking for, maybe it's just my ambitious about the timing, but I'd love to hear a perspective from our public service around how they envision the role of technology playing and what the output will be insofar as its constituents. So, uh, presuming you add, and I don't want to speculate, but to me it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that you could pick up 10% productivity for a traditional public service worker if you introduce artificial intelligence into their daily work. It might be more if you're a researcher or you're an analyst, then a lot of your role is going to be contracted using artificial intelligence. That's not to say we should see reduction of force, which I know in some jurisdictions we might. But where I get excited about Enrique because to me, this is just transformation on steroids. What's the opportunity cost if we can all pick up 10% more time, 20% more time, we could work 20% faster or we could achieve 20% more, or.
Enrique Rubio: You can save 20% to taxpayers, which sounds really good too.
Matt Burns: Absolutely. And I think you're going to see, uh, depending on party lines and depending on individual values, you'll see cases made for all them and they're all valid cases. I'd love to hear a vision from people on to your point, what is going to be realized, because I think the opportunity is compelling and I think the outputs can be a, uh, win win if we're intentional about understanding the incentives. I know it's really hard to get consensus around topics like this, but these are the kind of discussions that to me, I see technology as an accelerant for a conversation and it can go a million different ways. And I'm kind of sitting here with bated breath figuring out which way it's going to go. It should be interesting.
Enrique Rubio: Yeah. Well, you know, what's interesting is that with technology, I think you may have a pitch that satisfies pretty much everybody in the reasonable political spectrum, right? I mean, for the guys who want smaller government. Well, you can have smaller governments if you bring technology on board. I mean, that doesn't mean that you're going to be firing people, but it means, most likely, most, uh, agencies right now in government have openings that they can't fill up. I don't have a number of this, right, but given my experience, and probably you would agree, too, that if every private company has an opening right now that they can't fill up because, um, there's no people with those skills or that want to live in that city or whatever it is. The same is probably true for government, uh, for which the incentives for talent are different than in the private sector. But if this is true and you bring technology on board, maybe you don't even need to fill up that position anymore. Maybe you are already satisfying that need with technology. So then you have an answer of can we have a little bit of a smaller government and give back some money to taxpayers by implementing technology? So, number one, but then you have the people that tell you we want to spend more in government because we want to serve our people better, we want to expand our services. Well, with technology now, you can do it much more effectively and efficiently when you bring technology and you ensure a proper collaboration between a, ah, human and the technology. Imagine, for example, those who want to expand the government footprint by having agencies, for example, provide mental health services, right? Imagine if you bring technology on board and now you have, uh, artificial intelligent assistants helping you out, I don't know, screen people and kind of like help them navigate through the complexities of all the mental health landscape with government and whatnot. So now you can expand and, uh, this is just one example, by the way, but there are a million different examples. This is just one example of how you can expand your services footprint as a government institution without expanding the bill that we all have to pay. You can just bring technology. You can expand, I don't know, by just making it up, right, by 50%, uh, your service capability, by only increasing, I don't know, 5% your cost, something along those lines. And that sounds good. So you are really having smaller governments while having larger services. And I think that should be good for conservatives and progressives, right? I think it's a good pitch for everybody. I know there are concerns like people saying what will happen with jobs and what will happen with safety and who are we going to be paying technology wise, and are we making somebody else billionaire by hiring them to do these services? And well, it's all trade offs, right? No solution will ever be perfect. But if you want to have smaller governments and you want to have larger impact and services, well, there's no way around technology. You're going to have to just bring it on board. Even if you are not 100%, sort of, like, satisfied with everything, you will have to give up on something. Um, and that's the way everything works, particularly in government. You won't ever get 100% of everything you want.
Matt Burns: Hey, everyone, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying today's conversation. And before we continue, I want to update you on my latest creative project, this Week at Work. Every Friday at 07:00 a.m Pacific Standard Time. That's 10:00 a.m. Eastern and 03:00. P.m GMT. My good friend Chris Rainey of HR Leaders and I discuss the latest trending topics on the minds of executives globally. From organizational culture to technology and the future of work, we cover it all, and we invite some of our favorite colleagues to join us, from Dave Ulrich to Whitney Johnson, um, and executives from iconic brands such as NASA, Krispy Kreme, and WebMD. What can I say? We like to keep things interesting. And if you've been following us for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the fun partnership chris and I have developed over years podcasting together. We're not afraid to be real, share our own challenges, and ask the tough questions. Joining? Well, that part's easy. Follow me on LinkedIn, click the bell icon on the top right of my profile, and you'll get notified when we go live. And now back to our discussion. Well, I guess what excites me is government, by definition, is about incremental change. You actually don't want government to change that quickly because it makes people afraid about the institutions in which they support. And there's obviously a place for progressive thinking, especially around, uh, a number of issues that are relevant, given all the changes happening in broader society today. That said, what I think is really interesting is this phase of time that we're in right now is offering up far greater than incremental change. And it really comes down to your point around adoption and around use cases. And I love what you said earlier about ethics and the application of it. And for every technology advancement we've seen in society, whether it's the electricity or the telephone or the Internet, and keep going, going, going, we've seen lots of positive effects. And then we've seen some effects that are not that positive. Um, one of the fears I have is that in a case where, to your point, of all the choose your own adventure of the benefits that AI can afford you, one of them might be, hey, I want you to work two times as fast now. So I'm not going to reduce your workload. I just expect twice as much in the time that's been allocated. So I'm going to give you the same 40, 50, 60 hours work week. But I'm going to expect you to do the same that you do in two weeks. Now, in one week, because you now have AI to support you. I don't want you to take four days to write a report. Now it should take you two days. I don't want you to do this versus that. And I think there will be, obviously, certain people that look to this as a productivity enhancement tool. Um, and I think to those individuals, I would just say to look at a balanced scorecard of application of benefit here, you can have all of these things. You can be more productive, you can save money, you can make work better, you can drive more value to the customers, you can be less wasteful. One thing that I'm a big fan of is just removing the unnecessary spend from budgets. And whether that's in a corporate setting or in a public service setting, I was very big on if we're not getting use for that spend, let's reallocate that to something that could get use for it. Whether it's, to your point, employee engagement or benefits or mental health or any of the number of very worthy causes. I love the idea of technology as an opportunity to remove that inefficient spend where it's not value for dollar. I think that's where technology has a big advantage, is it can provide significant value for, to your point, limited investment.
Enrique Rubio: Yeah. No, I agree with you. And I think, uh, again, when you come to these conversations and I don't work, I'm not a politician, and I don't have to get into these negotiations, thank goodness I don't have to do that, because I know it's rough. Um, but you can have an answer to everybody's concerns, even if you don't get 100% of what you want to get out of it. Right. But you get almost all that you may want while preserving your principles, right? I mean, again, if you are somebody who believes in a small government, you can preserve some of the principles of what you're trying to do saving, uh, people tax money by implementing technology simultaneously. If you believe in the role of government, not because you want to have more government employees, but because you want to expand the footprint of the services provided by the government, then you have an answer here, too. Now, if you come to the table thinking, I want to have more employees, but also more technology, m maybe you won't get what you want. Right? Because the entire point here is to make sure that we can do as much as we can with as little resources as we can make that happen. I don't think anybody would have that expectation, though. I think the expectation, the reasonable expectation, would be, again, from one side, having a smaller government to save taxpayers money. From a, uh, different side, it is making sure that the government is there to provide services to the people and regulate, uh, industries and you can have all of this, of course, with technology. So it takes time. It's going to take time. I mean, it's taking time to private companies, they take time to do this, and they have a strong incentive to do this to make more money. So for government, where the incentives is not to make money, the incentive is a little bit different. And in addition to that, you have thousands of eyes looking at what you're doing for you to make the first mistake to keep you accountable for that. The timeline of this is different. Uh, but I'm excited about where, uh, technology is going in terms of, um, the impact that it'll have in both private and public sector.
Matt Burns: Your background is unique. Engineering.
Enrique Rubio: Yeah.
Matt Burns: Electronic Engineer HR executive, M community leader, podcast host, uh, uh, MC for events for some of the largest technology companies in the world. How, uh, does it all come together? How does it all make sense?
Enrique Rubio: No, I'm just kidding.
Matt Burns: On paper, it seems like there's lots of contradictions, but I know that with you, it all comes together. So I'm just curious how you marry all those disparate parts and what does it look like?
Enrique Rubio: Well, I think, uh, about the concept, uh, of transferable skills. Right. Um, I was a practitioner of electronic engineering for many years. And if you asked me today to do what I did 15 years ago as an engineer, or 20 years ago, I would not be able to do some of the things that I used to do, because I don't have that in mind anymore. In fact, I recently bought a book on calculus, just, uh, because I wanted to do what I was able to do pretty quickly. By the way, I loved math when I was doing my, uh, engineering degree, and I was trying to resolve some of these problems, and I look at them and I'm thinking, 20 years ago, I would have been able to do this in two minutes. And now I'm spending an hour to try to solve this thing because I don't remember anymore how to do it. But there's a thing. So, uh, that's a very kind of like, tangible, practical thing, perhaps, that I am not able to do anymore. But what I am able to do is there's a thinking process that you have as an engineer. And that thinking process is what I still have very relevant today, as I did years ago. And it's kind of like the thinking process that I try to use when I do my work as a community builder in HR, even as an MC, even when we're preparing an know, I go through, like you told me this, Rick, you made it so easy to sign up for one of your events. And all I keep thinking is, that's probably not the HR ah mindset. That's the engineering mindset that came in and said, how can I build something that makes it very seamless for people to perform a, ah task, an activity or something, right? Similarly, when I am doing something in technology generally, I am asking, for example, when I use cha GPT, which I use pretty much every day now, the kind of questions that I'm asking to chat GPT are not the kind of questions that I would have asked to chat GPT had I done this 20 years ago. I'm asking the kind of questions that I would ask as an HR professional, right? I'm asking the kind of questions that are a little different. For example, maybe I am more sensitive today to human emotions, uh, because of my work in HR, than how sensitive I was to this 20 plus years ago when I did all work about engineering. So when I do something on chat GPT and I get an answer, I'm like, yeah, but we need to fine tune this, because it doesn't sound that it's something that I want to put out in the way you're defining it. Right? So there's a component of HR mindset that comes in the use of that technology. So the way that I bring it all together is just by making sure that some of the principles that I've learned throughout my career, they are transferable. Um, and, um, I'm bringing them across the board from one side of activities to the other side of activities. If I'm working with technology, that I can bring some of my mindset of HR, that if I'm working with HR things, I'm bringing some of my engineering mindset, and that's how I keep it all together. I'm not able anymore, again to solve the same engineering problems that I was solving more than 20 years ago. I just lost that muscle. I don't remember anymore how to do it. But there's a mindset on how to approach that problem that still is relevant to me. Same thing with HR, right? I mean, there are things that I used to do in HR when I was a practitioner of the field that I may not be able to do anymore, because now I'm a community builder. But the mindset that I had when I resolved those problems in HR in the past continues to be relevant today as I am building community. And whenever I do the next thing, I don't know what the next thing will be in five years, ten years from now, but maybe I become I don't know. Maybe I become, uh, I don't know. Which I always wanted to do, by the way. Open a coffee shop. Maybe I open a coffee shop, and maybe I don't do engineering anymore. Maybe I don't do HR anymore, or maybe I don't build community anymore. But when I open my coffee shop, I am sure that what I learned as an engineer, what I learned as an HR leader, what I learned as a community builder will all come together to serve the purpose of making. Sure that that coffee shop is successful. So that's how I bring it all together.
Matt Burns: You know you can use chat GPT for calculus, right?
Enrique Rubio: Yeah, but it's the thinking that I am thinking about in like, um I'm just bugging you. I know you are, but there's a guy, uh this is why I did it. I don't remember his name. His name is Kevin something. Ah, um, he's a very big guy in all people analytics and stuff. I don't remember his last name. He posted something like about a year ago on his LinkedIn. And he said, every morning, um, very early in the morning, I solve one mathematical problem. The problem doesn't matter. The reason why I'm doing it is to keep my analytical skills sharp. And I was like, wow, that's very interesting, because I haven't solved a mathematical problem of that nature. Not two plus two equals four, right? But a different calculus problem. I haven't done that in years. So I bought this book and I have it next to, uh, on my bed table. And I don't do it every morning, but I try to do it very often, that I just pick one problem. Uh, and even if I can't solve it, I am thinking about thinking, I am thinking about how to approach that kind of problem. And that keeps some skills very sharp, uh, in m me. And I think it's very useful.
Matt Burns: 25 years ago in HR, the profession was filled with a lot of people that were career HR leaders. Maybe they didn't have education. And of course, over time, HR became more of an undergraduate degree and graduate degree. But in the early days of HR, it was a very, I would say, exclusive function. In the same way siloed in the same way that finance was and marketing was. But ah, HR had its own silo. In the last 15 years in particular, you've seen a real shift in the demographics. You've seen a number of different kinds of people enter into HR. And that's been for a few reasons. You've seen individuals like yourself coming in from different functions, whether it's technology or like me in operations, or you see individuals come in from sales or marketing. You also see a lot of organizations curating cross functional experiences for executives, saying, hey, as part of your rotational opportunity on the path to becoming a CEO or a C suite executive, you need a rotation in HR to learn a different part of the business. You've also seen the shift in the profession from one that was highly preferred to have deep technical expertise. We had people that were in labor law roles, employee relations roles, compensation roles, payroll roles, deep technical expertise. And the profession has since evolved into more of a generalist function where people are expected to be actually experts in a number of different areas, from influence and persuasion, to conflict negotiation, to labor law, to training and development and recruitment. And all the other myriad of, uh, things that come up. Where do you see it going in the future? Where's the profession as far as HR is concerned? How do you see it playing out in the next ten years?
Enrique Rubio: I think we have to double down on all and I'm going to put it in quotes because I know that's not the right way to say it, but I'm going to say it either way. We have to double down on all things soft skills. I know it's not soft skills, I know it's human skills, power skills, whatever you want to call it. But when we talk about soft skills, we all know what we're talking about, right? And I think we have to double down on that, because the complexity of the problems that we are dealing with will only increase. The amount of available information to resolve those problems will only increase. The amount of problems that we're dealing with. Business challenges and or opportunities that we're dealing with will only increase. And there is no way for anybody, anywhere. This is true for all functions, and it will be true for HR. There is no way for us to have all the answers to all the questions at the time that we're being asked those questions. There is no way for all of us to know all the challenges and all the opportunities that will be coming up, going forward. So one of the most powerful things that we're going to have to do going forward is bringing people together from different walks of life, different areas of expertise, and together try to solve some of those business challenges that we're dealing with or amplify and quote unquote, exploit those opportunities, those business opportunities that we're seeing in front of us. And having only technical skills to do that will not be enough, because you will never know enough deep enough to be able to resolve one of those complex, multifaceted business challenges that we're dealing with. So to me, what we have to do going forward is invest a lot in our quote unquote, soft skills, in our leadership skills, so that we are able to influence the kind of decisions that the organization is making to bring people together to get the best out of them in their technical areas of expertise. And that way, then we solve the problem. We become less of a technical expert and, um, more of the integrator, the facilitator, the coach that perhaps is bringing everybody together to solve those problems. And this is particularly true for HR too, because as we progress with technology, technology will do more of the transactional work that we are doing today. And as technology does more of that transactional work, I am hoping that we don't fill it up with more transactional work that now we start doing more transformational work. Meaning? All right, if we figured out, for example let me give you one very transactional strategic example. If we bring technology on board to run all our payroll kind of processes in a very smoothly way, the next question for us is not, uh, adding more transaction or how to turn the system into m perhaps becoming more efficient because maybe it already reached its peak of efficiency. Maybe the next stage is how do we design an organization where people have the kinds of rewards and incentives that truly motivate them, extrinsically motivate them to stay here and do their best? So that's a very different question than just asking a question about payroll. So then you start asking yourself something that is way more strategic, builds more of, um, a stronghold of an organization for the long term. And to respond to that question, you most likely won't be able to do it by yourself. You will have to bring people together. You will have to bring the CEO, the board with you and ask them, you guys are experts in your industry. What are the people in your industry say? That is, I don't know, manufacturing? What are people in manufacturing expecting from their employers? And now you have an insight, and then you bring the finance guy, and then you bring the It people, and then you bring the marketing people, and you put together all these insights. And then you say, I don't just want to make payroll in this company more effective and more efficient. I want to make sure that we're designing a rewards and incentive system that caters to what people want and why they would move to a company like ours. So those kinds of questions are very different. And to make payroll more efficient, maybe you have to have deep expertise in payroll and in the system that you're using to respond to the second question, which is, how do we design systems of rewards and benefits and incentives that bring people to this company? Then your deep expertise will only get you so far. Now it is your conversations, now it is your capacity to research. Now it is how you relate to, um, other people in the industry. Call it whatever you want, right? But that's sort of the direction in which I think we're going to be going to, and we should be going to becoming more of, uh, uh, an expert, bring people together rather than an in depth expert of payroll. I just think that that sort of model of in depth expertise on technical areas in HR that should die, that should die very soon, just because we have technology now to answer all the transactional questions that we may have. But the value will not be created in the answers of those transactional questions. The value will be created in the opportunities that we are maximizing for our company, or in how we are solving complex problems that we have that go way beyond the transaction. That's how I see the role of HR. And I'm going to add one more thing here, which you've heard me say many times in the past, and I'm going to say it again. I think of HR as a trailblazer. I think of HR as, uh, the function that is in the most unique, if that's even a way, if that's even a logical thing to say. The most unique, uh, function right now in any business is HR. And the reason for that is because we are sitting at, uh, the intersection of how our companies operate and how people operate. And, uh, most value for most companies is created at that intersection. When you look at the top ten things that most CEOs are concerned about, seven of them have to do with people. Whether they can attract and retain the right talent, whether they can deliver right performance and productivity, whether they can keep their workforce well, uh, from a well being holistic perspective, whether they can have the skills they need and have all the learning and development tools they need. All of them have to do with people. And that's because they know that as of today, their response to creating value as an organization still depends on people. And HR is the only function sitting at that intersection of people and business operation. And if this is true, that that's where value is created. And it will be true for a long time, by the way, it may not be true forever, but that's where value is created today, then HR has, uh, an extraordinary opportunity to say, I can become a trailblazer, a leader, that is helping everybody in business connect the dots between people and business operation. We are sitting at that unique intersection and that's where value is created. And we can become the trailblazers leading everybody forward into future of work, the new reality of work. That to me is exciting. And, um, we won't be able to do that if all we look at is in depth technical expertise on transactional areas. In HR. We need to look at maybe less in depth expertise in those technical areas and more horizontal, uh, expertise across different areas, particularly in all things, soft skills to bring people together. Because then if we're the leaders, we got to bring people together. We really have to be those trailblazers, right? And there's no way that I can approach a conversation with a finance guy telling him, I know a lot about payroll, therefore I can be your leader. You tell them like, hey, I need your insights to respond to these very difficult problems that we're dealing with right now. Then the conversation is completely different. So anyway, that's how I envision, and I am hoping the future of HR becomes that.
Matt Burns: As an event host, as a podcaster, you've interviewed hundreds of leaders over the course of your career, M, and you recently made the potentially unwise decision to come out of retirement and join myself and Chris Rainey for the Future workshop, which we recently announced.
Enrique Rubio: Yeah, I was retired from podcast, by the way.
Matt Burns: That's what I said. I pulled you out of retirement. We convinced you to come out of retirement. How did we do that?
Enrique Rubio: Well, because you and Chris are awesome, and I love you, man. I mean, you and I have been friends for a very long time. I think you are amazing. I think Chris is amazing. My relationship with him is newer. He's a people I actually have spoken with people that tell me, man, that guy's a beast. He is, like, really creating amazing things. And for me to be able to be in the same room with you and Chris talking about cool things and bringing awesome guests to a show, it's just a no brainer. Uh, and it is a no brainer from the perspective of how much I think I will learn. Not I think, I know I will learn from you and Chris, but also the kinds of questions that you will be asking these leaders, questions that I would have never thought about that will help me do better the work that I am doing. So I'm imagining the three of us interviewing one leader, you guys asking a question, and I'm like, wow, I never thought about that thing before. And, um, that one question that you asked and the response we get from that leader invited to that conversation will most likely inform a new event that he put together, a new initiative, a new learning program, uh, whatever it is. So, to me, it's really a no brainer to be in that room with you guys, because I think you are amazing. Your reputation precedes you. You are respected more, uh, than probably most people that I know in the HR space. And I think the three of us, in a more kind of, like, transactional answer. The three of us probably together, have the largest HR, uh, network in the world. Without a doubt. I say this. The three of us together bring more people to our events and our podcasts and our learning programs than anybody else anywhere in the HR world. And that, to me, is exciting, because the impact we can have together is much larger and, um, faster than any impact that we can do individually. If we were separated from each other, this was meant to happen at some point. You told me this, like, five years ago. At some point, we're going to get together. The time has to be the right time, and now it's the right time. And I'm super excited about, uh, kicking off our conversations.
Matt Burns: When's the right time to sell hacking HR merchandise?
Enrique Rubio: Oh, man, you've been telling me for that forever. But we're very close to that, by the way.
Matt Burns: I'm going to get that. Whatever. You let me know. I'm going to get some. But back to the original piece, chris and I are so excited as well. I think, as you said, we've been friends for years and we've always had common values. And I also think that you bring a unique perspective to the conversation that we'll all benefit from and whether it's because you were born in a different place from all of us, and we have now, UK, Canada, Latin America, the United States, well represented. Like, we really want to bring a global perspective to global problems because the world is shrinking. And I love when we bring guests on from Central Europe and North America and Asia Pacific and the Middle East. And we really try and to your point, have innovative and thoughtful conversations around challenging topics. And I know that you are somebody who does not shy away from the bigger questions. And we were looking forward to just partnering with you on this and seeing where we can take what I'm most excited about, Enrique, as I think about this, is we can really raise the level of the conversation.
Enrique Rubio: We can. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Burns: I think that's what HR has really been asking for is how do we raise the level of conversation and how do we all come together on this journey and help support each other? And you've modeled that better than anyone that I can think of. So I'm super excited about the opportunity and, um yeah, thanks again for agreeing to do it.
Enrique Rubio: Yeah, well, no, thank you. Thank you and Chris for, uh, Chris Rainey, um, and you, Matt, for inviting me to be part of this and taking me out of a podcast. Um know, doing podcasts is a very hard thing to do, and, um, I was doing one podcast every day and I did so for two years. So it was a lot of work. Not only that, it was a lot of different ideas to have in mind that I couldn't retain anymore. So I was going a little crazy and I said, um, I think now I'm getting too distracted by these conversations. But now I know we're going to have the right cadence and it's going to be an incredible product and, um, service and conversation that we're going to put out for the community to all of us grow together. So thank you so much for that.
Matt Burns: For folks that want to find you, what's the best place to do that?
Enrique Rubio: Just go to know. Go to LinkedIn. Enrique Rubio. Uh, you can find me. Check out Hacking, HR, LinkedIn, and the website. We are about to release our new website in the next couple of weeks, which is going to be pretty cool. And that's that's how they, uh, know, connect with me. Very good.
Matt Burns: Thank you again.
Enrique Rubio: Thank you. My Friend.
Matt Burns: Is a digital transformation consultancy working at the intersection of strategy, technology, and people operations. We partner with organizations, private equity and venture capital firms to accelerate value creation and identify the organization's highest leverage initiatives. And this can take place in many forms, from strategic planning and alignment to technology procurement, implementation and integration, along with organizational design, process reengineering and change management. With our proven track record of working with complex, high growth organizations, we provide a uh lens that goes beyond the balance sheet, increasing enterprise readiness, resilience and value. For more information, check us out@bentohr.com.