How I Reflect on my United Nations’ Experience - Tadiwa Muradzikwa

In today’s episode, I chat with Tadiwa Muradzikwa, an Ottawa, Canada-based HR professional with experience on 4 continents, including memorable stops in Zimbabwe, Liberia, Malaysia, Germany, the United States and Canada. He holds a Doctor of Social Science degree, a Master of Science degree in HR Management & Training from the University of Leicester, and an MBA from Mancosa in South Africa. 

Throughout each of our lifetimes, this world serves as the backdrop for some truly remarkable events. Some are triumphant, while others are tragic. What binds them are the people who bear witness to the best and worst of humanity.

Tadiwa is one such individual, having supported United Nations’ talent strategies that among other accomplishments, underpinned relief efforts during Haiti’s earthquake in 2010, assured civility in the 2014 Afghan elections, and were instrumental in the rebuilding of Liberia, a country torn apart by 14 years of civil war. 

We began our conversation as we do each week, with Tadiwa’s own words, as he shared the story of his professional journey to date. I was curious to learn why he chose this particular path, the challenges he faced, and lessons learned along the way. 

What does the day-in-the-life of a talent professional charged with assuring the right people are present in some of our darkest hours? How does the United Nations approach their broader talent strategy? And what experiences, conditions and realities do those of us who work in more-developed countries take for granted?

Among all the other selfish benefits I receive from hosting this show, learning from my guests is at the top. And boy did I learn a lot from Tadiwa in our short time together. Beyond that, I had a lot of fun, and hope you enjoy our conversation, as much as I did recording it.

Tadiwa Muradzikwa

Tadiwa has over 17 years of human resources experience in the sectors of agriculture, retail, hospitality, consultancy and with the United Nations. He has worked in Canada, the USA, Germany, Liberia, Malaysia and Zimbabwe. His experience includes HR administration, recruitment, talent management, training, compensation, employee relations, as well as HR policies and strategies.

Tadiwa has a Doctorate of Social Science with a specialization in HR Management and an MSc degree in HR Management and Training. He also has an MBA Degree from MANCOSA, in South Africa, and a BA degree from Africa University, in Zimbabwe.

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: These are people who are just going there not knowing how the situation is going to be. Like how the culture, they're not familiar with the culture. They don't, of course they read a little bit about the culture, but then they. They get there and they're just there helping out [00:00:20] people.

[00:00:33] Matt: Constraints drive innovation. Hey everyone, it's Matt here for another episode of Thinking Inside the [00:00:40] Box, a show where we discuss complex issues related to work and. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us@bentohr.com and wherever you find your favorite podcasts. By searching, thinking inside the box.

And if you enjoy the work we're doing here, it's the holiday season. [00:01:00] Consider leaving us a fivestar rating, a comment and subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our message. In today's episode, I chat with Towa Mewa, a human resources professional with experience on four continents, including memorable stops [00:01:20] in Zimbabwe, Liberia, Malaysia, Germany, the United States, and.

The Deva holds a doctor of science degree and a master of science degree in HR management and training from the University of Lester and an MBA from Man Cosa in South Africa. Throughout each of our lifetimes, the world serves as the [00:01:40] backdrop for some truly remarkable events. Some are triumphant, while others are more tragic.

What binds them are the people who bear witness to the best and worst of humanity. Many of which are completely anonymous to Dowa is one such individual having supported [00:02:00] talent strategies that underpinned relief efforts during Haiti's earthquake. In 2010 assured civility in the 2014 Afghan elections and were instrumental in rebuilding Liberia, a country torn apart by 14 years of civil war, we began our conversation as we do each.

Entity [00:02:20] of his own words as he shared the story of his professional journey, I was curious to learn why he chose this particular path, some of the challenges that he faced, and the lessons that he learned along the way. What does the day of in life of a talent professional charged with assuring the right people are present in some of our darkest [00:02:40] hours?

Look. How does the United Nations approach their broader talent strategy and what experiences, conditions and realities do that? Those of us who work in more developed countries take for granted. Among all the other selfish benefits I receive from hosting the show, learning from my [00:03:00] guests is at the top, and boy that I learned a lot from to diwa.

Beyond that, I had a lot of. And I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did recording it, and now I bring you to Diwa Mera Z. Today. Well, I say this to begin many podcasts that we end up recording [00:03:20] and I always mean it. And this one, I mean it doubly, I'm really excited for this conversation. I had a chance to connect with you briefly at an event here in Ottawa called Informed hr, where you did a presentation on some of your background and experiences, an HR leader globally with the United Nations, and I really want to get into those experiences.

But first, thanks [00:03:40] for joining us. What's your background? What are your experiences and what led you to. 

[00:03:44] Guest 1: Thank you so much, Matt, for having me on your platform. My story, um, I cannot talk about my story without, um, making reference to the people who have made me who I am who have influenced my life. People like, uh, my [00:04:00] grandfather, my father, my mother.

I was, uh, born in Zimbabwe. Uh, the, and those people, they, uh, imparted certain values in me. The importance of respecting people, the importance of, of, um, the value of education and all that. So, [00:04:20] um, I was born in Zimbabwe, like I was saying before, and, uh, my background in human resources spans over a period of 17, almost 18 years.

And, uh, I've been working in, in various, um, uh, area sectors. I would say I started off [00:04:40] with an internship in the United Nations, went on to, to, uh, work in the, in the hospitality industry as an HR manager. Uh, I also worked in the retail industry as, so as an human resources officer that was old in Zimbabwe.

Then I went to Malaysia, uh, [00:05:00] working there as a nature consultant, uh, from Malaysia. I went back to Zimbabwe, worked again in, in the, like I was saying, in the, in the hospitality industry for a big chain of hotels there, but, I always wanted to, to, to, not just to have the [00:05:20] international experience, but to make a difference in, in people's lives.

To be able to make a contribution as a person who grew up from humbled beginnings were brought up in humbled beginnings. My, um, parents sort of all the time, they always helping people, always, uh, trying. [00:05:40] Bring about change. For instance, I, I can, uh, tell you my mother has a school in a place where before she established that school children were walking about 10 kilometers.

And during the rainy seasons, they were crossing rivers and during the rainy season sometimes cause of the floods, [00:06:00] kids could not go to school. So my mother decided to establish the school in order to help that community at any given point in time, my family always had people over at our place, uncles staying with us, extended family.

Providing for them, helping them to find jobs. [00:06:20] So I was brought up in a family that had these values of, of trying to help up people. And because of that, it, um, I always had this desire to participate and help societies. And that's why I joined the, the United Nations. That was in 2007 as a volunteer in [00:06:40] Liberia.

I was a volunteer. But at the same time, I was working in my, um, contributing within my field that is, uh, human resources. So I was there with the United Nations peacekeeping mission, serving as a volunteer in the HR field, and at the same time getting the chance to [00:07:00] interact and, and, uh, help people in, in the communities there.

So, um, after I worked there for a year, Then I moved on to go to Germany with still, with the United Nations within the human resources field, but now, uh, supporting several hum uh, [00:07:20] uh, United Nations peacekeeping missions throughout the world. So, When you hear of large scale emergencies like elections, the at some point, uh, elections in, in Afghanistan, earthquake, the emergency, the earthquake that happened in Haiti.

I was part of the team that [00:07:40] was, uh, sourcing people, finding people for those large scale emergencies, and also to help out with the peacekeeping efforts, uh, throughout the. Then from Germany, I, I lived in Germany and worked there for about six years or so, and then I joined the UN office in New York. In [00:08:00] New York, I was still helping out, uh, uh, the peacekeeping environment.

But within, uh, a different role there I was, uh, supporting efforts to do with de-mining efforts. Uh, so those experts who were involved in de-mining, I was, um, Helping out with [00:08:20] those efforts in terms of searching for those people with that background and, um, yeah, so I stayed in New York, worked there with the un and then from New York, I moved on to working with the UN in Montreal.

And with the UN in Montreal, I was, um, involved in several, [00:08:40] uh, human resources from HR administration to recruitment to, uh, yeah, several other things that administrative work within the HR field during my other time also with, um, With there, I learned a lot meant, um, met a lot [00:09:00] of people within, um, the aviation industry because there I was, uh, their support.

I was there as with an organization that, um, Deals with establishing standards and rules and regulations for standards at the airports, the aviation industry in general. Yeah, that [00:09:20] was, uh, my background. Then after that, I've, I've now with my current organization, seed Change, where I'm the director of human Resources and with seed change, our role is, uh, we work with, uh, we work with small scale farmers.

Here in Canada with women, [00:09:40] indigenous communities, Canada, Latin America, and also in also in in, in Africa and Asia, and there is to support. All the sustainable farming practices, promoting the use of, of seeds, uh, seeds, biodiversity. That's what we do as an [00:10:00] organization. So, um, I've been there fulfilling my role as an, as an as a nature practitioner for so many years.

But, uh, yeah, briefly met. That's, that's my story. I can tell you a little bit more about. Places I've been where I've, I've worked supporting HR [00:10:20] services like a Democratic Republic of Congo. Uh, I've also done a bit of services in Tanzania. Tanzania. I've also done, throughout the world, I've, I've traveled a bit with my work, seeing how people, um, leave their lives working with, uh, different people.

So, [00:10:40] That's, uh, that's, uh, about me, Matt, in brief. Well, 

[00:10:44] Matt: I thank you for sharing that and, and thank you for your service. You've clearly been involved in a number of really critical human, you know, impact type efforts, and I do want to get into each of those with a bit more granularity. Before we do, I'd love to learn [00:11:00] just bit more about.

From the 20,000 foot view perspective, you've worked in on multiple confidence, you've worked extensively through Africa, you've worked in Asia, you've worked in Europe, and now worked in North America. I'm just curious, at 20,000 feet from your perspective, what has that global experience brought to your human resources [00:11:20] practice today?

[00:11:21] Guest 1: Uh, I've benefited a lot. I've, I've grown a lot as a, not just as an a practitioner, but as person. You know, working with, uh, multiple cultures, it, it gives you a different perspective in terms of how you work with people within [00:11:40] the, the organization, different approaches. There's no, um, as a practitioner, there's no, what you call a one size fits all view.

So, for instance, there were points when I, I would go to, to. To, um, like when my first time when I went [00:12:00] to Liberia, I was used to certain ways of working. Having had working as, as a nature practitioner, as Bob, I was used to, okay, this is how you, you, you, um, Implement your HR practices. This is how you do. But when you get there, you will realize that you have a lot to learn [00:12:20] from the people within those organizations as well.

You have to adjust to a culture. Sometimes it's a bit of cultural shock, but then as, as, um, You learn to adapt and to to use certain practices. There are certain trends or certain changes that might be going on [00:12:40] within, let's say within the North American context, but those trends might not necessarily be applicable within the the, the African context or within the European context because you'll be working with different people.

So it's sort of that view of working in different CONT continents has really helped me. In terms of opening up [00:13:00] and broadening my view of, of, of the HR 

[00:13:03] Matt: field. Do you, you and I have many parallel experiences. We both work globally in organizations across multiple continents, and you've already referenced the fact that each of those experiences taught you something a little bit different, and I can appreciate that the context would shift depending on the location you're working.

One thing that I [00:13:20] really have benefited from is just an understanding that every time I enter into a. Play setting, whether it's domestically or internationally, I'm absolutely more mindful of with, and now it's happened so many times for me that it's kind of in my head where I ask thoughtful questions about what are the current conditions, what are the [00:13:40] current pain points, what are the opportunities and aspirations of that particular context so that I don't bring with me my biases from my past work.

And it's, it comes naturally. I mean, in, in most cases, it's not meant to. Negative, but you, myself, other professionals, we have experiences, we've had successes, we've [00:14:00] have, you know, you know, different types of backgrounds that lend us to believing that we have a fair amount of knowledge. But when that knowledge comes into a new context, it absolutely requires a shifting that you've mentioned.

I'm curious, curious for you, as you enter into new, new markets, new organizations, new jurisdictions, are there [00:14:20] questions that you ask folks in order to build that level of understanding? Are you making a, a intentional effort to connect with people and one-on-one settings and go for those kind of coffees, like how are you building relationships and building that contextual knowledge so that you can better serve that stakeholder in a workplace setting?

[00:14:36] Guest 1: Yes. Uh, so, um, what I, I, I [00:14:40] figured mostly at the challenges or weaknesses that, um, we, HR practitioner or people who have been in certain fields for a very long time, is that we tend to rely on those approaches that have worked all the time for us. So for an instance, if I'm used to a certain way of [00:15:00] doing things and it has been successful, most of the times I tend to go back to that approach and try to apply it in a certain context.

Uh, I remember just, uh, from a story I had, uh, Gone into an organization I was so enthusiastic, wanted to, so I did my assessment of the [00:15:20] gaps, the challenges that the organization was facing. I spoke to my boss or my supervisor at that time, so excited. I would say, okay, I can try and I'll implement this, uh, applicant tracking systems.

New HR systems to oversee, we can do this, reports, we can do the statistics, we can do analytics, we can [00:15:40] do this, we can do that. I was so excited because of my previous experience and it had worked elsewhere, but when I got into that organization, I'm not just for the purposes, I'm not saying, um, which it was it, which organization it was.

I was excited. I got. And [00:16:00] I started introducing these new changes and there was resistance, uh, which at some point I was, uh, puzzled. It was a new challenge that I was facing. I had never faced so much resistance in my life, and then I just started, my approach then was, okay, [00:16:20] this isn't going further. I have this, uh, changes that I want to bring in as a nature practitioner.

I'm, I'm happy about. I've, I've, I've track record. I know it has worked elsewhere, but it was just for some reason, reason hitting a brick wall. So I sat down with each of those, uh, uh, [00:16:40] individuals, uh, like individuals who were, uh, resisting this change. And I wanted to find out what was, what were their reasons.

And there was a certain culture within the organization that was, um, sort of like conflicting with, with these new things that I, I, I was trying to bring [00:17:00] in. And I sat in with them. I heard them, I just listened. It was not about me trying to defend my approach or coming to say, this is what needs to be done.

This is, it was just to listen to them, to get to understand where they were coming from, what were their reasons. Or for [00:17:20] the, for, for resisting it. What was it that I could do? What could I bring in so that we both myself and them would benefit, and then the organization as a whole would move forward efficiently.

So, um, through listening. Through getting to understand their reasons, [00:17:40] I managed to tweak my approaches. Eventually, of course, we introduced a better system. That was a fusion of both my approaches and their approaches, and everybody was happy and I gained a lot of respect from them for doing that.

[00:17:57] Matt: Hey everyone, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying today's [00:18:00] discuss. And before we continue, I want to make you aware of my latest creative project this week at Work presented in partnership with my good friend Chris Rainey of HR Leaders. Each Friday will live stream on LinkedIn at 7:00 AM Pacific Standard Time.

That's 10:00 AM Eastern Standard Time and 3:00 PM GMT [00:18:20] for our European viewers, and together bring you the latest trends, news on topics emanating from organizations, everything from culture to technology, and the future of work. Joining is easy. Just follow me on LinkedIn. Click the bell at the top right hand side of my profile and you'll get notified when we go live each.[00:18:40] 

And whether you do experience the content live or later, if you've been following me for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the fun banter Chris and I have developed over the years and whether it's been podcasts or digital events. We're so excited to, again, bring you the topics affecting today's workplaces and their leaders.

And now back to our discussion, [00:19:00] 

[00:19:02] Guest 1: Evan. Up to now, I've left the organization. I'm now with another one, but I still have deep respect from those people. They really appreciated that I, I sat down with them, I gave the chance, and this is what I would encourage every HR practitioner to do whenever you come in, you, not just any, [00:19:20] uh, HR practitioner, but any manager.

When you come in, understand the culture and then try to to have buy in and try to see methodologies or approaches that works for both parties. I think 

[00:19:33] Matt: it's a really important point because we've talked about cultural nuance and certainly there's differences in operating in an, in a [00:19:40] professional context when you're looking at sub-Saharan Africa compared to North America and Western Europe and Southeast Asia, and there are certain universal truths.

That seem to apply across all jurisdictions. And the first one is that people, regardless of context, appreciate respect, appreciate audience [00:20:00] for their thoughts, their beliefs, their feelings, and appreciate a collaborative approach to arrive at a solution that involves them and includes them in that solution.

Whether it's co-creating, whether it's feedback, whether it's vetting an opportunity to bring people with you along the journey. I think that's a really, Best practice to apply in every context. Whether you are working globally, [00:20:20] whether you are working domestically, that resonates. But it's when you, to your point, when you skip past those steps and assume that your existing knowledge is ultimately going to be the solution to somebody's problem and you don't give them the opportunity to participate in that co-creating that solution, that's when we run into challenges around [00:20:40] supporting our stakeholders and ultimately delivering what's in their best interest as we move forward.

[00:20:45] Guest 1: That's true Matt. Now 

[00:20:47] Matt: Towa, one thing I was really struck by in our having our conversations both offline and today, you've been involved in a number of very high profile and very specific situations that have occurred over the [00:21:00] course of the last several years. And I'll be honest, when I heard about the earthquake in Haiti or the elections in Afghanistan, I didn't give much thought to the talent strategy, the human resources strategy that underpinned all of that.

I looked at the headlines on news outlets and I certainly had conversations around political discourse at economic discourse. [00:21:20] Shame on me as an HR practitioner, I didn't give much thought to what it would be like to support some of these more challenging situations. So I'd love, if you wouldn't mind indulging my curiosity, what was it like to be a talent leader supporting things like the Haitian earthquake relief effort or the Afghan election effort?

What was [00:21:40] that like a day in life of for you as you're working in the UN context to support those, uh, various humanitarian effort? 

[00:21:46] Guest 1: It was a challenge, and at the same time, you know, it's a satisfying feeling that you are a part of something, that you are something bigger. You are there to support people to [00:22:00] help in the, in a different context.

Of course, I wasn't physically going there to, to be the hands on person doing it, but the fact. You are sourcing talent, you're looking for people, you're looking for people who have the skills that are needed by those specific cont uh, communities at that [00:22:20] specific time, and you're making a difference in their communities.

Uh, when there was, um, like the, the elections in Afghanistan, sourcing those electoral experts, people who have that background who are going to be. It was not so [00:22:40] easy. You have to use multiple sourcing strategies from whatever you can think of, social media to publishing in certain, um, articles, to doing, uh, YouTube videos, all those things so that you have the people ready at hand so that when those emergencies occur, the people [00:23:00] would go there.

People are ready to go there. You're speaking to people on the phone. I you're speaking to the, to different people on the phone say, are you ready to do this? Some of them would be like, oh, yes. Uh, and you know when, when people watch things happening on the news, watching things happening on the news [00:23:20] for some.

Even though somebody might have initially said, okay, I'm ready to go. When that call, when that person picks up the call and you speak to them and you say, are you ready to go? Do you want to be in this place? And then they're watching things happening on the news. It it, it raises, there's certain [00:23:40] fear associated with going there.

And at the same time, there are certain people, that's why. Total respect for those people who go there and make that conscious decision, courageous decision, and they have their families supporting them and then they go to those places. So it's not so easy. It's like here in um, [00:24:00] north American context where somebody picks up and say, picks up the phone or has an interview and say, oh, you got the job.

Are you willing to go there? People would be thinking of, okay, how is the office like to mi? Is there. Enough space in the office, is it, does it have a nice view? [00:24:20] How's ac, is it warm? Do I have all this back? These are people who are just going there not knowing how the situation is going to be. Like how the culture, they're not familiar with the culture.

They don't, of course, they read a little bit about the culture, but then they, they get there and [00:24:40] they're just there helping out people, so, Part of my experience as in supporting and looking for those people, it brought a lot of inner satisfaction within me. And when I watched on the news, uh, that, oh, the efforts are there, people are there to help out and to make a [00:25:00] difference, to make a change.

That's something is priceless, Matt is really priceless. I couldn't 

[00:25:06] Matt: imagine just the impact that would have, and I also appreciate the amount of, to your point, challenges that you face. Alongside of that, because we're obviously operating in less than ideal circumstances, the pressure is really, really high, as is the [00:25:20] spotlight on the efforts and like most important acts that exist in society, specifically in a business context.

Behind all those acts are individuals, people. And I'm curious you, you mentioned some of the implications to both the worker, the people who worked in those capacities, but also their families. I'm curious how much of your role you [00:25:40] spend working on that side of things. The human resources, the employee relations, spending time with workers or with families, helping them show up to be the best versions of themselves in spite of more challenging circum.

[00:25:54] Guest 1: Yes, yes, I did. I, I had a lot of, uh, of course sourcing them was [00:26:00] another part of it. But then there is the management of their welfare, right? Looking into people would come, um, their benefit, salaries, all those other things. But, um, you know, when, when you are in, in, um, Peacekeeping mission context. For instance, they most of the [00:26:20] without their families, so they are there, you have to be there for there for them.

Right. Um, I remember when I was in Liberia, people would actually come to you say, okay, I have, um, Challenges at home. I, I want to go back home. How do I do this? How do I, you know, [00:26:40] so you are there dealing with their welfare matters, dealing with their HR administrative issues. And it, it's, it's, it's a different context.

It's a different context. They bring in different challenges. So I, I'm just, just to give you a bit of a picture. Somebody's working in, in another continent, [00:27:00] then back home. Maybe family sick or they have certain things that they have to attend to their personal needs back home, and they have to work. They still have to work, but they still have to, to of course, be there to support their families.

That's a difficult thing. So this is where as an HR practitioner, I would come in. To [00:27:20] talk to them, to just listen to them and find ways of helping them out. So it was more than sourcing and it was more than you have to give certain amount of support. You have to organize activities for people to do so that they be it social activities, uh, be it.

[00:27:40] Um, Other things to do within the communities. I remember we used to organize an event where we went to, uh, paint a school for, uh, orphans and blind, uh, orphans and, and blind, uh, people. We used to do all these other activities outside of work. So your role as a nature practitioner extends beyond [00:28:00] just, uh, the admin stuff, but also even the social side.

So those are some of the differe. 

[00:28:06] Matt: Another experience that you had was working in the country of Liberia. And I'll be honest, I don't have a significant amount of knowledge and experience about the country of Liberia other than it's obviously where it's located in the continent of [00:28:20] Africa and lots of news stories about.

What I understand is a 14 year civil war, and I can imagine that working in a context of a country where you've just come out of a 14 year civil war and you're trying to support that nation in its rebuild and organizations that are supporting that nation's rebuild, that [00:28:40] creates a whole bunch of complexity.

For you as an HR practitioner, I'd love to hear a bit more about your experiences in Liberia. Specifically, what role does you play? Who did you support, and what was a day in life like for you in a country that just come through a significant amount of internal strife? 

[00:28:56] Guest 1: Um, that experience, my prefer, that experience in [00:29:00] Liberia.

It was priceless. It was valuable. It's, it was, um, I would say one of the things that I, I always, that I've had in my life, I'm grateful for because it, it opened up my eyes in terms. How I, I worked with different people, different people and [00:29:20] backgrounds. All of, I had colleagues from, um, Tanzania. I had colleagues from the United States.

I had, uh, colleagues from that, that time Gaana. I had, uh, people from all over, even Nepal, all those countries you can think of. So it, it. It was [00:29:40] good. It was really good in, in terms of developing my professional growth and also even personal growth. I remember one of the, the, the challenges, you know, there are certain things that we take for granted.

Things like, uh, yeah, just, uh, electricity or running water. I remember my first day when [00:30:00] I got there, and then I had to look for a bucket to fish water. Of course, I, I wish that that. I was living in an apartment and, um, fetching water for me to bath, to do the dishes to do. Um, yeah, that was a different, uh, experience altogether because of [00:30:20] 14 years of civil war.

There were power plants there had been destroyed. You could even visibly see some, uh, bullet holes, uh, bullet holes, and sometimes you would on the like streets, buildings. And I had never seen Matt that time people with so many people with, [00:30:40] um, either no limbs, no arms, but they still were the happiest people.

They were happy in their life, you know, when you appreciate or you value life. So I would see them as I would, uh, on my way to work. And the, like, grocery shopping or whatever, I would see all those people [00:31:00] and it gives you a different perspective to how life is. Of course, we all go to the office, we do whatever we have to do, uh, and then go back home.

But that experience, it, it, it opens up, it, it gives you a different perspective to how life is all. And when you see those people ir respect, I, I [00:31:20] know there's this, um, feeling that, okay, you want to feel p for the people, but it was not like that. Then there, because you would see the way they appreciate life, the way they led their lives.

Even uh, people with disabilities still performing whatever they have to do. Just like able, able bodied people. [00:31:40] So that, that gave me a different feel altogether. In terms of, of a day, what a day was like. Of course, I, I would, um, wake up, go to the office and I was spending a lot of hours working a lot of hours because you are there for a finite period.

You're there to support, [00:32:00] to, to give the skills. Uh, my role there was, um, I was training in career develop. And then I also dealt with, uh, recruitment. So in the training, in career development, there were Yes. That, that was, that, that's what I was, I was doing, keeping speaking to people, uh, [00:32:20] coordinating trainings and all that.

And at the same time, I, I was also doing things outside of, of, of my work. Like, for example, the, the example, like the example about, uh, painting the school for the blinds and yeah, it, it was, it was a lot because you are there, you're working with these [00:32:40] communities, you're doing something beyond your work.

You come out of there with a different percept. And, and learning a lot as well from the 

[00:32:47] Matt: experiences. I can only imagine, I can only imagine how affecting it was both the individuals, uh, who were in those situations, but also for you, yourself. I'm curious, just in general, you've talked about [00:33:00] experiences in Afghanistan, in Haiti now in Liberia.

What experiences do we take locally? I'll say even just domestically here in North America. What experiences do we take for granted when you consider your experiences in North America, and then experiences that you've had in other situations that may have been more challenging? 

[00:33:19] Guest 1: I, I [00:33:20] just briefly touched on, for example, um, there are certain things that we, we.

Take for, for granted. Like, uh, yeah, in general, like electricity, having reliable 24 7 electricity available, having, um, running water as an example. Those are things, and even. [00:33:40] Uh, little things like, uh, oh, I need office space. I need, uh, I don't know. I need, uh, 24 7 fast internet. I need this. Those are, and we are, we have this, uh, I don't know how to call it, but, um, an abundance thinking.

I don't know if that [00:34:00] makes sense. Where we, we, we always want to. Get more this sense of entitlement with a minimum effort as much as we can. I know it's human nature, it's how, but those things, sometimes we take for granted. There are some people out there in those [00:34:20] communities who only get, I remember in Liberia electricity was only for a few hours, uh, like seven hours or.

A day and, uh, because of the, like I was saying, the power station had been destroyed cause of the Civil War. So people rely on generators. So if you are, you are [00:34:40] using gas to, for your generator and then for you to be able to, to, um, Have a decent life. You, you need to be, uh, buying gas to make sure the generator is working.

So most people just use the generator. That was in 2007. So I, I'm [00:35:00] pretty sure a lot of things have changed by now, but those day to day challenges and things that we take for granted and complain about, there are some people who have. Worse odds or who are experiencing more difficult challenges. And that has helped me a lot as an individual to appreciate everything [00:35:20] that we have in this part of the world.

Because there are other deep, they're only people, some people who only have one meal per day. And, um, Which is not the case here. So the freedom of speech, the freedom of you can come in, you can use, because of the technology we have, we [00:35:40] are able to implement so many, um, innovative ideas within the HR field, within our organizations.

But some parts of the world don't have that liberty to make, to leverage or to to use that technology. So, We should be appreciative. I think [00:36:00] everybody should be appreciative of what we have in North America. I couldn't 

[00:36:03] Matt: agree with you more. And one final question for you with today, and thank you for again, for your time.

What is, looking back on your career, what is something that you're really proud of? Something that you look back on fondly. Maybe it was a challenging experience that ended up turning out okay, an area where you had big impact. [00:36:20] Maybe something that's just small and inconsequential in the, in the broader context, but something that you look back on in your career and say, wow, I'm really glad, I'm really grateful to have had that experience, uh, in the work context.

[00:36:32] Guest 1: In the work context. I'm really grateful for all the people I've worked. All the people I've worked with [00:36:40] and that international experience, no matter how, whether if the experience was positive or negative, I always, when I reflect on it, they're lending points we should never take people for granted. Even the, the bosses who were difficult to work with, [00:37:00] even those, um, they still are learning point from it because one of them, which is you learn how not to treat other people in a certain.

And you learn how to be a good manager if you take those into account. So that experience of dealing with difficult, good managers, people, meeting people at different [00:37:20] points in my life, some of them have actually been bridges to other opportunities. I'm so grateful for that and that international experience, like I said, it, it just opens you, opens up your, um, perspective, ways of seeing life, and I'm grateful for that.

Well, and 

[00:37:36] Matt: I'm grateful for your time safety. Well, as I mentioned earlier, [00:37:40] I thought that this would be an amazing conversation and it certainly met those expectations. Thank you again for spending some time with us today to share a bit about your background. Your experiences, your stories. You know what we're gonna do is we're gonna link your details in the podcast show notes for folks looking to connect with you directly, whether it be LinkedIn or elsewhere.

We'll [00:38:00] put all those details in the podcast show notes. And, uh, today, I know we're in the same city now, looking forward to grabbing a coffee one of these days. But if we don't do so for the Christmas break, I just wanna wish you a happy holiday season and, uh, a really happy 

[00:38:11] Guest 1: new year. Thank you so much. Um, it was great.

Thank you for this opportunity and definitely, um, yeah, hopefully we'll have [00:38:20] a, a coffee sometime. Grab a coffee sometime and, uh, happy New Year as well. Thank you.

[00:38:35] Matt: N O HR is a digital transformation consultancy working at the intersection of [00:38:40] strategy technology. And people operations. We partner with organizations, private equity and venture capital firms to accelerate value creation and identify the organization's highest leverage initiatives. And this can take place in many forms from strategic planning and alignment to technology, procurement, implementation, and [00:39:00] integration along with organizational design, process reengineering and change management.

With our proven track record of working with complex high growth organizations, we provide a lens that goes beyond the balance sheet, increasing enterprise readiness, resilience, and value. For more [00:39:20] information, check us out@bentohr.com.