How Leaders Manage in the Margins - Rob Salafia

In today’s episode, I chat with Rob Salafia. What happens when you combine a successful career in the performing arts with over 2 decades as a top leadership development executive? 

You get Rob, who early in his career, travelled the globe as a performing artist offering his one person show in theatres, festivals and select street venues. He used storytelling, tap dancing, comic characters and wire waking to engage and delight audiences. Fifteen years later, he earned a Master's degree in business while working full time at Boston University, and transitioned into corporate learning. 

He now runs his own company - Protagonist Consulting Group - and is a lecturer and executive coach at the MIT Sloan School of Management.

In the discussion, Rob & I cover a lot of fertile ground, beginning with his background & experiences in the performing arts. And now as an executive coach. We chat about society’s broader shift to virtual & Rob shares how he helps leaders develop their executive presence, authenticity and storytelling skills through transformational learning experiences. 

It was such a pleasure connecting with Rob. And I hope you enjoy it.


Rob Salafia

Rob is the author of – Leading From Your Best Self: Develop Your Executive Poise, Presence and Influence to Maximize Your Potential (McGraw-Hill). As an executive coach, Rob finds great satisfaction in guiding leaders through transitions to more senior roles, as well as coaching senior executives and leadership teams to enhance team effectiveness and prepare for strategic presentations.

Rob is a lecturer in MIT Sloan School of Management and an MIT Leadership Centre Master Executive Coach. He is certified in the PRINT Assessment to reveal one’s Unconscious Motivators. Over the past 20 years Rob has worked with a multitude of Fortune 500 companies in the capacity as a speaker, executive coach, learning partner and workshop facilitator. These include, Harvard Business School, Alexion Pharmaceuticals, PepsiCo, TJX, Publicis Sapient, ING Bank, NN Group, News Corp, Sony Music Entertainment, Thought Ensemble, Metro AG, Philips International, Alliance Bernstein, and Fidelity Investments.

LinkedIn

Thinking Inside the Box

Constraints drive innovation. We tackle the most complex issues related to work & culture. And if you enjoy the work we’re doing here, consider giving us a 5-star rating, leaving a comment & subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content & really helps amplify our message. 

LinkedIn
Instagram
Twitter
Website
Apple Podcasts
Google Podcasts
Spotify
Stitcher
Pocket Cast


Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

LinkedIn
Twitter

Transcript

[00:00:00] Guest 1: If you a leader. Welcomes that and goes, Ooh, tell me about that or [00:00:10] help me understand that. How does that influence the way we're currently going? Is, is there something that, is that something we need to pay attention to? That's powerful leadership[00:00:20] [00:00:30] 

constraints 

[00:00:32] Matt: strive in. Hey everyone. It's Matt here for another episode of thinking inside the box, a show where we discuss [00:00:40] complex issues related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us at bento, hr.com and wherever you find your favorite [00:00:50] podcasts by searching, thinking inside the box.

And if you enjoy the work we're doing here, consider leaving us a five star rating, a comment and subscribe. It [00:01:00] ensures you get updated whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our message. In today's episode, I chat with Rob Safia. What happens when you [00:01:10] combine a successful career in the performing arts with over two decades as a top leadership development executive?

Well, you get Rob who early [00:01:20] in his career traveled the globe as a performing artist, offering his one person show in theaters festivals. And select street venues. He used storytelling, [00:01:30] tap, dancing, comic characters, and wire waking to engage in delight audiences. 15 years later here, a master's degree in business while working full time at Boston [00:01:40] university and then transitioned into the corporate learning.

He now runs his own company, protagonist consulting group, and is a lecturer and executive coach at the MIT [00:01:50] Sloan school of manage. In this discussion, Rob and I cover a lot of fertile ground beginning with his background and experiences in the performing arts. And now as an executive [00:02:00] coach, we chat about society's broader shift to virtual and Rob shares, how he helps leaders develop their executive presence, authenticity and [00:02:10] storytelling skills through transformational learning experiences.

It was a real pleasure connecting with Rob and I hope you enjoy it. And now I bring you [00:02:20] Rob Salala. Hello, Rob, how are you doing 

[00:02:23] Guest 1: this morning? Actually energized. I just got off a fantastic call with a potential, uh, [00:02:30] client, a CEO, looking for coaching, and we hit the right. Notes, we hit the right buttons and it looks like, uh, a very positive interaction.[00:02:40] 

[00:02:40] Matt: Well, energized is a good place to start for our conversation. And I do want to get into that discussion. Cause I think it's important. Uh, you were sharing with me some details about it offline. I think it ties nicely into [00:02:50] our discussion today. Before we get there though, Rob, I'd love to learn a bit more about you, your background and your experiences 

[00:02:56] Guest 1: gladly.

I was a geography [00:03:00] major in college. International development took a semester abroad to KA Mandu, Nepal. One of in 1975. At that point, it [00:03:10] was very underdeveloped. I had an amazing experience when I came back. That's when I had, I think, a [00:03:20] kind of conflict of values because. Education I found was the most important element when you want to, uh, engage [00:03:30] with, uh, developing under underdeveloped countries.

Uh, the focus in that program was more on more of a political stance. So I got [00:03:40] disillusioned. And took a left hand, turn into theater and street performing. I, well, I became a street performer. Uh, I learned [00:03:50] juggling some, some basic acrobatics within three months of graduating from college, I had a street show was performing in my college town, started to [00:04:00] develop a liking for this.

And you know, it it's like if you're floating down the river, you don't really know where you're going. A branch catches you along the. You hop [00:04:10] out. That's what happened in theater. And I just went full, fully into it. I became an accomplished tap dancer, rope and wire Walker and [00:04:20] storyteller. I developed, uh, an ability to be in front of audiences and it didn't happen easily.

When I first started, I kind of got in [00:04:30] front. I would watch, I would watch people that were really good at this would have 300 people around them and. Just for an hour, be able to entertain them. [00:04:40] And for all them, I tried it when I first started out, I'd get 17 people around me and like, like the wind, they would be gone.

I go, how do they do it? [00:04:50] I learned was I had to make myself interesting and I made myself interesting and becoming interested in my audience. There are some [00:05:00] really strong themes in my experiences in theater and performing arts that hold true to this day. And that was one of them. This idea of getting close to my [00:05:10] audience, I had to learn skills, but it wasn't.

About the skills that mattered. It was the connection with the audience and an essential [00:05:20] lesson I learned was it wasn't me trying to connect with my audience. And that's what I tried to do. I tried to cajole my audience to like me in the beginning, and that was never comfortable for an [00:05:30] audience. I soon realized was I had to be vulnerable and allow my audience to connect with me.

There was one story that brings us to life. [00:05:40] I remember having 300 people around me. This is in Boston, in front of fan hall, marketplace, Quincy market. This is a renowned center for street performing in the [00:05:50] world, actually. And I had 300 people around me and I was bending down to get my hat and something happened, something [00:06:00] fell away and there was a palpable experience.

It was this need to be liked. This need to make something happen. And I just did [00:06:10] nothing. I looked up and the audience was still there, right there with me. And then this little girl, she was about two years old in a pink princess [00:06:20] of costume with a balloon tied to her wrist. That was up in the air, started to drift out walking sort of like in that way, kids [00:06:30] do, they just kind of like mindlessly walk into the middle of the circle.

And I looked at my audience and they weren't looking at me anymore. They were looking at this little girl [00:06:40] and I slowly walked up. My job was what my job was to make sure that she was safe. Give her a moment, but return her safely to her family. [00:06:50] So I put one finger under each arm that I really, I, I put my finger to my lip to make sure the audience wasn't saying anything to, you know, to keep [00:07:00] them quiet.

I lifted her arms up and I went TA da and the whole audience burst an applause. In that moment. I, I turned that little girl and I returned her. [00:07:10] And in that moment there was a, there was a sense of like appreciation and a sense of like connectedness that I had never experienced before with an. [00:07:20] That's 

[00:07:21] Matt: it.

That's a wonderful story. And it is for a number of reasons. One, I love the, the reflection in the [00:07:30] moment. I love the self-awareness and I love the spirit of the message in which you're sharing. Um, not making everything about you and [00:07:40] looking through the lens of what would be in best service to your audience.

I'm curious, how does that translate into your professional practice now? Cause I'm [00:07:50] assuming it works really well for things like executive presence in public speaking and you know, leadership in general. And I'm just curious how you've been able to apply some of those lessons [00:08:00] in today's world. 

[00:08:01] Guest 1: That's a beautiful question because that's what I've been doing for the last 25 years.

So when I have a business leader that [00:08:10] comes and says, I need to connect better with my audience. I always try and help him or her change the frame and say, rather than think of it from that [00:08:20] perspective, think of it. How can you allow your audience to connect better with you? And that takes a sense of vulnerability.

It takes a sense of when, let, let's just talk about [00:08:30] platform skills for a moment. Uh, and this is all aspects of communication, but if you walk up onto a stage, you'd see a lot of [00:08:40] leaders. It's they just start talking at people. Rather than thinking about who their audience is, what they might be feeling, what they might [00:08:50] be thinking, what are their fears?

What are their concerns? What are they there for? And having a dialogue with them? It's more of a, so anytime I coach for a [00:09:00] presentation, so, you know, platform skills, I'm always helping people to think of it in terms of a dialogue. So it's a two-way street. It's not just you download loading information on [00:09:10] them.

[00:09:11] Matt: And that's hard for a lot of leaders because in the context of corporate leadership, a lot of what gets you higher up the [00:09:20] rungs of the ladder is demonstrated expertise and saying the right thing at the right time in the right room. And very little rewards are [00:09:30] given for individuals who sit back and observe and truly connect.

Uh, a lot of performative. Uh, things happen in boardrooms around corporate, uh, the [00:09:40] corporate world. Uh, I I'm curious how you help leaders reconcile that. 

[00:09:44] Guest 1: So let let's talk about it. Yeah. More on the inside of an organization. [00:09:50] Think of it like this executive presence. It's how people experience you. It's how they experience themselves when they're with you.

It's a [00:10:00] story they tell about you when you've left the room. So if, how many ways can people experience you? They can experience you energetically, physically vocally, [00:10:10] emotionally. Normally, we have all of these working for us all the time, but we lead with one of these. So sometimes somebody can be [00:10:20] very, let's say a nervous sort of person.

You're gonna experience them. Energetically. You, you can feel that nervousness and almost gets, it gets communicated to you. [00:10:30] Someone is very calm. And that energy, that emotional energy gets communicated leaders that are able to become in, in [00:10:40] chaotic situations provide that sense of certainty in ambiguity.

So when, when people might be anxious about what [00:10:50] is going on, they don't understand, they don't see the there's no clear path forward, and there's a lot of mixed message. A leader that can [00:11:00] come forward with that sense of calmness and provide that sense of certainty for, for their people is a very powerful thing.

The, I like to think [00:11:10] about what are the conditions or the environment that you're creating within an organization. That's how people experience you. So that could be on one OnOne [00:11:20] and whoever's listening, you know, think about, have you ever felt small in someone else's presence before. Or have felt large in someone else's presence.

Now, [00:11:30] no one can make us feel small or large except ourselves, but in certain situations, especially within an organization, within a company, [00:11:40] there's a power dynamic. That's always created it. Leaders that, that lead with positional power or influence, uh, can tend to be very like [00:11:50] demonstrative, not leave room for other people to get their voice in the.

So that's a lot of that is communicated through their presence. [00:12:00] And if you've ever felt yourself in a meeting needing to say something, wanting to say something, and you held your tongue for fear of retribution, retaliation, [00:12:10] or something worse, you know what that feels like. You also know what it feels like when you feel psychologically safe to bring up a [00:12:20] topic, to bring up maybe an alternate point of view, a differing point of view.

If you have a leader that welcomes that and goes, Ooh, tell me [00:12:30] about that. Or help me understand that. How does that influence the way we're currently going? Is, is there something that, is that something we need to pay attention to? That's powerful leadership [00:12:40] leadership is about having all the answers.

It's about, uh, knowing where we're going, where you're going, where you're trying to get everyone [00:12:50] going enlisting in that journey with you. And making sure that you're identifying the problems, barriers along the way at [00:13:00] MIT, we call that a problem based leadership so people can come forward if they understand what the problem is.

And you put that out there, you, [00:13:10] you never know where the, where the solutions are gonna come from. 

[00:13:14] Matt: I, I couldn't agree with you more. and I know that sometimes old habits die hard, that there is, [00:13:20] again, this pressure on leaders to be the smartest person in the room, despite ample evidence to the contrary and lots of best practices, whether it's from [00:13:30] MIT or, you know, other post-secondary institutions, other, you know, publications, other anecdotes that I've heard.

We're now in a knowledge based [00:13:40] economy, that's moving so fast. And the idea of arriving at a singular answer. To any question is a fallacy. So Rob, I think he's done a great [00:13:50] job of kind of framing how important presence is in the context of encouraging people to bring their full selves to the conversation.

And [00:14:00] while I think it's difficult to. Properly measure the opportunity cost of people not doing that. I think we all can agree from a, uh, at least a conceptual [00:14:10] point of view that when people feel safe to contribute their full selves, to bring their concerns forward, to bring their ideas forward, uh, ultimately we end up with a better [00:14:20] product and that's where we want to be as leaders.

Hey everyone, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying. Today's discuss. [00:14:30] Before we continue. I want to make you aware of my latest creative project this week at work presented in partnership with my good friend, Chris Rainey of [00:14:40] HR leaders. Each Friday will live stream on LinkedIn at 7:00 AM. Pacific standard time.

That's 10:00 AM Eastern standard time and 3:00 PM GMT for [00:14:50] our European viewers and together bring you the latest trends. News on topics, emanating from organizations, everything from culture to technology and the [00:15:00] future of work joining is easy. Just follow me on LinkedIn, click the bell at the top right hand side of my profile, and you'll get notified when we go live each.[00:15:10] 

Whether you do experience the content live or later if you've been following me for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the fun banter Chris and I have developed over the years and whether it's been [00:15:20] podcasts or digital events, we're so excited to, again, bring you the topics affecting today's workplaces and their leaders.

And now back to our discussion. [00:15:30] 

[00:15:31] Guest 1: So building on that, Matt, there's a thing about, so like the trap of the. Is that you've been in something so [00:15:40] deeply that you get the way it works, you know, the pathways to success. And then when someone brings a new idea, you, you say, well, no, no, this is the way we've all [00:15:50] done it.

This is the way we know works. And this is the way we're gonna do it. You're not trying to shut somebody else down. You just kind of know the work, but that there's a trap in that [00:16:00] of does. By saying that, does it shut someone else down? Will they ever bring a new idea to you? It might be true that [00:16:10] that's sort of the way it should work, but could you be open to augmenting that to shifting or seeing it from another point of view?[00:16:20] 

That's why I like the arts because the arts provide that, that different lens for looking at yourself for looking at, uh, your presence for looking at how you [00:16:30] show up as a. But there are many other lenses, uh, cultural lenses that people, uh, come to the table with. And this is a leveraging difference. [00:16:40] We all, as leaders love to, you know, where do we work best?

You know, if you're leading a team of 10, there's probably three or four people on [00:16:50] that team that are like you, they share the same maybe background or kind of view of things and things go easily with them. And that's who you gravitate to. There's [00:17:00] probably a group in the middle that, you know, you're, you know, can work with.

And then as you view at, on, on the other end, You have no idea how to work with them, cuz they come from [00:17:10] such a different place, whether that's culturally, whether that's academically, whatever that, that difference, uh, tends to be. [00:17:20] Our job is, is, is to, is to make sure that we're not just going where it's easy, but we're opening up ourselves, our organization, our teams, [00:17:30] they're looking at a problem from a different point of view.

And that's where great solutions come from. So 

[00:17:37] Matt: Rob, I'm curious, you've done a great job [00:17:40] articulating how this works in the context of the four walls of an organization. I'm curious how it translates to individuals who work with organizations. So people like yourself, [00:17:50] executive coaches, consultants, advisors.

How does the framework shift when you're interacting with an entity, as opposed to inside of an entity? 

[00:17:59] Guest 1: [00:18:00] Wow. Everyone has a different way of engaging. Uh, mine is highly relational. I want [00:18:10] to make sure that that there's a partnership that I'm not just a vendor that I'm, whenever I coach other [00:18:20] consultants, let's say that work within, within a client's organizations and say, you, you have to get out of your boat and get into their boats.[00:18:30] 

Another UN understand where they're going, understand what's important to them, why it matters to them. And I remember working with this [00:18:40] with this one leader who was, um, their team was, you know, in this great resignation, you know, just leaving like crazy and having to do all the work himself. [00:18:50] And so the idea of getting into his boat, taking the auras out of his hands and.

Letting him sit in the seat that he needs to be sitting in to guide [00:19:00] and then letting a team come in that can support him. So it's, it's all in the frame of how you see the role. I see my role as enabling [00:19:10] others to reach their goals. And my job is to see the brilliance in, in either the individual in the team and the organization [00:19:20] and help that come out.

Help that brilliant be, be seen because usually the, all the knowledge is resting there within the organization. It's just not getting out. [00:19:30] So on the individual level, that's helping people, uh, transform themselves and transformation is possible. It's not like you're trying to become something other than you are.[00:19:40] 

There are a couple of questions. I like to ask that I've learned along the way, one of them, uh, this comes from Deborah, an Kona who, uh, was [00:19:50] one of the founders of the leadership center at MIT. She talks about what's the part of yourself. You had to leave behind to be the person you are today. [00:20:00] A lot of that comes that is rooted.

The best self work that I do is kind of root rooted in there. You know, a lot of times, uh, I worked with this one, this one leader [00:20:10] from, uh, from Europe who said he grew up as a musician, great musician, jazz musician. And he was also an engineer [00:20:20] and he came to this fork on the road and he said, which am I gonna.

I have a love of music, but I'm gonna go into engineering because [00:20:30] that's the choice. That's going to put food on the table and allow my family to thrive, leaving that person behind. How does he then go [00:20:40] back and make sure that he brings part of that self with him? So this, um, I guess that's a complex answer.

Let me share another story that this [00:20:50] might make sense. One of the leaders in a, in a, uh, Dutch bank who I'd been coaching asked me to coach a member on, on his team. [00:21:00] And he said, this person. Has a lot of value to add to the management team. He's in like a, a shared services role. He supports the other leaders, but when he shows up [00:21:10] on the management team or table, he's very, he doesn't get his voice out.

He doesn't, you know, his, his it's almost like he shrinks when he gets there. Can you help him? So [00:21:20] I met this person in person back along, you know, a few years ago and he's six foot three. He's huge. He's a guy. And I went seriously tell [00:21:30] story to find out this guy was an former international martial martial arts champion.

I was floored. I said, I [00:21:40] need to know your story. He said that. Doing really well, I got hurt. I, I injured my, my leg. I realized that I could no longer compete. And if I [00:21:50] can't compete at that level, I'm not gonna do it. He said, I wrapped up that former set, put in a trunk, put it in the attic, put it away, closed the door.[00:22:00] 

I went back to school for engineering, enjoying it. I got this job at this, uh, at this, uh, Dutch. And I'm looking around the table and I see these other [00:22:10] people that have been in this industry for a long time and I'm getting psyched out. Cause do I even belong? It was an imposter complex. And then I asked him, I said, do me a favor, sit [00:22:20] down in a seat in that same way you would sit just before match just before you got up and walk on the map, Matt, when he sat down.[00:22:30] 

All of a sudden he spread out, he got large. He, he looked his whole, you could feel the weight. He was sitting in the chair with. And I went, I [00:22:40] couldn't believe it. He like, he like transformed in front of my, in front of me said how you feel? He goes, I, his voice got lower. He said, I feel great. This is [00:22:50] where I've always bent, done.

My best said, do you feel any anxiety at all in terms of going? He goes never. I always left it on the mat. I never, [00:23:00] I never worried him. This is, this is where I do my best work. And then we made a plan. I said, do, do you see how you left? This is a person of who you are. Have you ever shared this [00:23:10] story with any of the other, uh, members, you know, your team members?

He said never. And I asked him why, and he couldn't gimme an answer. So we made a [00:23:20] plan for him step by step, share that, share his story and then get everybody else to share their story as. Two months later, total [00:23:30] transformation because he, that person he left behind was his essential self that gave him power that gave him [00:23:40] confidence and sort of like bringing that with him, like reconnecting with that former self, he was able to then.

Put his [00:23:50] ideas forward. I mean, they, everyone around the table loved hearing his story. They wanted to hear that story. They were, they couldn't believe it. So you were a former martial arts champion. Are [00:24:00] you kidding me? Tell me this. They, they wanted to hear it. All of a sudden he became, he became larger in their eyes and he became larger in himself as well.

[00:24:09] Matt: Well, and [00:24:10] to your point, it starts with self and the stories that we tell ourselves. And I think a lot of people can identify. Certainly I can identify from the last three [00:24:20] years of going through the ebbs and flows of a global pandemic and, um, now kind of entering into a bit of a recession and there's a lot of.

[00:24:30] Challenging times out there. And it's very easy to look inward and ask yourself tough questions about who you are and how you want to show up and, and how you [00:24:40] interact with people. And I know our audience can take something away from that story because to your point, with a subtle shift in mindset, this individual now is able to show up in a much [00:24:50] more powerful, empowered way.

And what I love most about your story, aside from the obvious transformation. When we talk about this individual, stepping into their power, [00:25:00] it's stepping into their power in a humble. It's not meant to be weaponized. It's not meant to take space from other people, but rather to embody the space that they [00:25:10] naturally would, would undertake anyway.

And I think that's a really important message is we tend to oscillate as a society between extremes. We sh we're shrinking violences, and then we're big [00:25:20] personalities and finding the equilibrium between the two showing up with that level of authenticity and transparency and integrity in a lot of cases is [00:25:30] really the key to longstanding success.

Especially when the world around you is so volatile. 

[00:25:36] Guest 1: I, I really like the distinction that you make. And I work [00:25:40] with a Chi practitioner and Tai Chi, and I've been doing that since I was 17. And we work on principles of [00:25:50] developing sort of a, a inner gravitas, let's say an inner core and it's values based, but it's also energy based.[00:26:00] 

It just, you just feel. More more together on the inside. You're able to weather changes. You're able to weather [00:26:10] ambiguity and, and, uh, disruption, more power more effectively when you have that sort of center. And it's a center of, [00:26:20] of magnetism. It draws people to you and it's not aggressive. It's not boastful.

It's just [00:26:30] it's it just is it's it's it's it's comforting. Actually, 

[00:26:34] Matt: one thing we talked about offline, Rob, that I wanna dig into is the idea of [00:26:40] constraints. And right now in our broader society, there's lots of constraints. There's constraints on our ability to travel freely there's constraints with [00:26:50] budgets, there's constraints that we put on ourselves.

And in the context of all the great work that you're doing, there's. Constraints within budgets [00:27:00] in organizations. And oftentimes when organizations are in challenging times or they're sitting and operating within challenging economic conditions, [00:27:10] one of the first knee-jerk reactions is to start cutting back on things.

And cutting back on programs and cutting back on expenditures. And that could be not filling [00:27:20] vacancies. It could be slowing down, you know, expansion plans. And in a lot of cases, I say this from an HR perspective, it could be discontinuing or [00:27:30] delaying training programs, leadership programs, and a lot of things we've talked about in this conversation deal with self development, personal development, leadership development, and I would [00:27:40] argue.

Despite the explosion of resources and knowledge and access to those tools. There's still a significant deficit [00:27:50] in organizations around a lot of these topics. And I'm curious how you adjust your approach to operate within those constraints, understanding that there's such a [00:28:00] need for the things that you provide and the lessons that you teach and the knowledge that you share.

And yet we're working within constraints, both in terms of time and money and resources. And [00:28:10] I'm curious how you navigate those tough situations. 

[00:28:13] Guest 1: This is, this is a great topic and I know it's on everyone's mind. Let's back up a little bit and go to [00:28:20] this. Concept of constraints in improvisational theater.

I'll bring it back to the theater. Uh, when you think about improv, improv, uh, [00:28:30] theater, if, if you're on the outside and you go like, oh wow, you watch it. You go like, I, I don't think I could ever do that. And it's just, I, I'm not that creative. [00:28:40] I don't is how could I ever, you know, uh, it seems so like random that anxiety of looking at from the outside.

It, it does, it creates [00:28:50] anxiety, but if you're on the inside, you realize that good improv only exists with good constraints. And when you know what [00:29:00] the job is, you need to do, uh, let's say whatever that exercise is, you know what it is you need to do. It's very specific. [00:29:10] So the constraints are, you need to go to a, to B, to C and you have to hit those marks.

What you. In between you can do whatever you want. So it's having [00:29:20] a structure around. Setting up proper, a proper constraints creates innovative approaches. So if you think of problems, [00:29:30] problem based leadership, it's all within constraints. The best ideas in the world have come out of when a lack of resources, uh, of a lack of [00:29:40] access.

And you have to come up with, if you have a solid goal that you wanna keep, that, that you have, that you wanna, you wanna get to. It doesn't matter what the barrier [00:29:50] is, what that constraint is. You'll figure it out. You'll marshal, whatever resources or creativity and come up with a brilliant solution. [00:30:00] So when are HR leaders or leaders want tore operating within constraints, constrained, budgets, whatever it is, [00:30:10] focus in on the goal.

Where are you going? And if it's developing leaders. I don't care if it's in good times or in constrained times, [00:30:20] the need to develop leaders is always there because if a leader is, if, if they're not working on themselves, if they're [00:30:30] not being developed and they're looking at a problem. They're not gonna bring that best ideas forward.

So we always have to be thinking the goal to develop leaders and then [00:30:40] work within the constraints. My job as a provider is to then come up with solutions that would be more [00:30:50] reasonable within a constrained environment. So what, what the past three years and a half years have done for me? I had been somebody that has always [00:31:00] taught, you know, these let's say two full days with a small group, very, very deep, intimate, almost cathartic experience.

And then [00:31:10] people would enjoy that. But then they would come out and say, what do I do with that? How do I put that into practice? So someone that was always client facing not only in the classroom, but I [00:31:20] would be developing clients. I'm always tuned into their needs. What do they need their leaders to do?

So I'm always focusing [00:31:30] whatever I'm, whatever intervention to help their particular group do, what they need to do to achieve the results that they're looking for. And [00:31:40] so within. These two day programs, I'm working with one of my clients really good partnership, and he said, I need to extend, we need to extend [00:31:50] this learning journey.

So instead of doing two days in a row, we did four single dates. We added one coaching in between. That was one of the best [00:32:00] programs I ever thought it was truly transformational for each person. Then COVID hit. And he said, can't meet in person anymore. What can we [00:32:10] do? We kept the format. Only we did virtual programs.

We kept the coaching in between. We did, uh, half day [00:32:20] sessions with three weeks in between very similar, uh, cadence as we were doing in person. And the results were almost [00:32:30] identical to a person. People found immense value and it was this combination of. The programmatic experience in the one-on-one [00:32:40] coaching and it was all done virtually.

So now I'm trying to take that to the next step, add a couple of learning platforms, some video reviews, some [00:32:50] reflection. In other words, we want to make sure that we're providing learning in the flow of work. We're giving people time to reflect [00:33:00] and writing down. Their ideas, what their journey is, is a very powerful tool.

And it's not always, uh, incorporated in, in a lot of learning [00:33:10] programs. I'm also not. In addition to writing, using video review, it's so important that we need to, if we're in a, a virtual [00:33:20] environment or hybrid environment, we have to get really good at being on camera. We have to get really good at being able to build.

Our teams, our [00:33:30] communities, our organization virtually, and the way I've done it, I I've, I've really embraced this idea of virtual [00:33:40] and I try and be as best in class with my virtual presence. And that's what I encourage other people to do as well. So [00:33:50] I think we need to be creative within constraints and give our executive.

Opportunities to develop themselves and [00:34:00] make sure that they're embracing these and stay connected with them. And a lot of this is virtual. A lot of these are, uh, in the flow of work. Uh, so it's [00:34:10] short videos that are sent out on Monday morning. It's these ex, these virtual extended learning programs. I think we have to use everything at our [00:34:20] disposal at this point.

Rob, 

[00:34:22] Matt: my favorite podcast episodes are the ones where I take something away and, and go, huh, there's something there [00:34:30] worth reflecting on. And this episode has given me a number of those items, uh, whether it's the idea of executive presence, conversations [00:34:40] around vulnerability, virtual presence. I wanna thank you for your time for your insights, for your perspectives.

And I'm definitely gonna take away. Things from this [00:34:50] conversation, do some reflections, do some journaling, come up with an action plan. Um, and I would encourage other listeners to do the same because there's lots of great nuggets in this conversation. [00:35:00] And Rob just I'll make sure I add all your, um, contact details and all the aspects of your career background in the show notes.

So for folks looking [00:35:10] to reach out to connect, we'll have details again in those show notes. I wanna thank you again for your time for your, for your thoughts, for your feedback. Uh, I just wanna wish you well, the rest of, uh, [00:35:20] 2022. 

[00:35:20] Guest 1: Thanks Matt. I really. Enjoy the conversation and the opportunity to share some thoughts and ideas with your listeners.[00:35:30] 

[00:35:38] Matt: Ohr is a digital [00:35:40] transformation consultancy working at the intersection of strategy technology and people operations. We partner with organizations, private equity and venture capital firms to [00:35:50] accelerate value creation. And identify the organization's highest leverage initiatives. And this can take place in many forms from strategic planning and alignment to [00:36:00] technology, procurement, implementation, and integration, along with organizational design processory engineering and change management.

With our proven track [00:36:10] record of working with complex high growth organizations, we provide a lens that goes beyond the balance sheet, increasing enterprise readiness, [00:36:20] resilience, and value. For more information, check us out@bentohr.com.[00:36:30]