How Sourcing Talent Has Changed Forever - Jim Stroud

In today’s episode, I chat with Jim Stroud. With over a decade of experience in recruitment and sourcing, Jim has consulted for companies such as Microsoft, Google, Siemens, and a host of startup companies. During his tenure with Randstad Sourceright’s Global Head of Sourcing and Recruiting Strategy, he alleviated the sourcing and recruiting headaches of clients worldwide. 

Jim has created and sold five online properties, managed an award-winning blog, published a weekly newsletter for jobseekers, a recruiter training magazine and co-hosted a popular technology podcast. Presently, Jim produces content and manages events for SourceCon, the original sourcing conference. 

That made him the perfect person to sit down with and chat talent. We began with what change in the talent profession (in the past 3 years) has surprised him most? What’s the most common question he receives from talent leaders today? And with myriad creative projects, including an author of 5 HR related books, producer of the YouTube series - "The Jim Stroud Show," and producer of "The Jim Stroud Podcast" - what inspires him to create contenty after all this time?

It was fun discussion as Jim that went a lot of places. And I hope you enjoy listening as much as we did recording it.

Jim Stroud

With over a decade of experience in recruitment and sourcing, Jim Stroud has consulted for companies such as Microsoft, Google, Siemens, and a host of startup companies. During his tenure with Randstad Sourceright, he alleviated the sourcing and recruiting headaches of Randstad clients worldwide as its Global Head of Sourcing and Recruiting Strategy. Presently, Jim produces content and manages events for SourceCon, the original sourcing conference. 

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Matt Burns

Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

Jim Stroud: I don't think AI is going to do that. So many different variables are in that, situation. You got to know how to approach this person. You got to know how to talk to them. You got to sort of, sort of feel them out. Not only are you talking to that candidate, but you're also, in a way, talking to that person's spouse. AI is like any other technology is programmed for every situation that somebody can think of, but there's always something new and different out there that you did not take into account when programming. Missing someone.

Matt Burns: Doesn'T call you.

Jim Stroud: Missing someone.

Matt Burns: Constraints drive innovation in hey everyone, it's Matt here for another episode of Thinking Inside the Box, a show where we discuss the innovative ways organizations and their leaders overcome complex issues at work. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us at our shiny new website, insidetheboxpodcast.com, and on all of your favorite podcast platforms by searching thinking inside the box. And if you enjoy the work we're doing here, consider leaving us a five star rating, a comment, and subscribing. It ensures you get updated whenever we release new content and really helps amplify our message. In today's episode, I chat with Jim Stroud. With over a decade of experience in recruitment and sourcing, Jim has consulted for companies such as Microsoft, Google, Siemens, and a host of startups. During his tenure with Randstad Sourcewright as their global head of sourcing and recruiting strategy, he alleviated the sourcing and recruiting headaches of clients worldwide. He's created and sold five online properties, managed an award winning blog, published a weekly newsletter for job seekers, a recruiter training magazine, and co hosted a popular technology podcast. And today he produces content and manages events for Sourcecon, the original sourcing conference that made him the perfect person to sit down with and chat. All things talent. We began with what change in the talent profession in the past three years has surprised him most?

Matt Burns: What's the most common question he receives.

Matt Burns: Today from talent leaders? And with myriad creative projects, including five HR, related books, producer of a, YouTube series, the Jim Stroud show, and producer of the Jim Stroud podcast. What inspires him to create content after all this time? It was a fun discussion and it went a lot of places, and I hope you enjoy listening to it as much as we did recording it. And now I bring you Jim Stroud. Jim Stroud.

Matt Burns: I've had this conversation circled on my calendar now for a couple of weeks, and I'm going to be, pretty honest with you. I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes. How are you doing today?

Jim Stroud: I'm doing fine, thank you.

Matt Burns: Jim, for those who don't know you personally, a bit about your background and your experiences and what's led you to today.

Matt Burns: Sure.

Jim Stroud: I've been involved in recruiting sourcing since the beginning of time, that being 1997, when the earthly cooled. Yeah, I've started working at MCI way back when. What you young folks may think of as Verizon these days. I think it's been traded hand so many times. I've worked for Microsoft, Google, Siemens, energy and automation, several startup companies. I think at ah, the height I worked at Ransad Sourcerite, I was the global head of sourcing and recruiting strategy there. Had a lot of fun, a lot of international travel there. And quite recently I have been anointed the editor of Sourcecon. Sourcecon is a sourcing, conference and community. It was the very first sourcing conference started back in 2007 and I'm so proud and privileged to be a part of it today.

Matt Burns: It is the preeminent sourcing and authority. And I'll say this for you because I know you're too modest to say it yourself. When we think about talent professionals, I think about a couple of signature conferences. I think about ATD for talent management, talent development, think about Sourcecon and for those who are unfamiliar, HR professionals and talent professionals often think about talent in a lifecycle. Think about the stages of somebody's career when they're being attracted to or acquired or being vetted for an organization. That's a Sourcecon discussion, that's helping our folks understand where to find the best talent, the best tools to source individuals, how to create a really great candidate experience and a great onboarding experience. And Jim, it's never been more challenging. Now with this hybrid world where we have to create an experience that's consistent whether you're in an office five days a week or you never actually meet your direct supervisor. So Sourcecon to me is a melting pot of collection place for those kinds of discussions. I'd love to hear a bit about what drew you to that particular role. You mentioned your background, your experiences, why Sourcecon now? Why is this the right step for you in your.

Jim Stroud: Sure, sure. actually I helped create Sourcecon. when Sourcecon was founded there were four individuals, Rob McIntosh, Lens O'Connor, Earl Mann and myself. I was the MC for the first three official Sourcecons and also helped market it. So where I did not invest money. I was a pretty integral part in the beginning of it. And, Sourcecon sort of really put me on the map in a lot of ways because I was promoting the conference, I was speaking at the conference, I was meeting all kinds of people. I was already blogging and podcasting and doing video. So it really, shined a light on me and it made me more of an industry name in the sourcing community. So, I've returned to Sourcecon since the very beginning, multiple times to keynote speak there on multiple topics, generally around the future of work or sourcing, finding passive candidates in creative ways, that kind of thing. And, the last source con that I spoke at was in Minneapolis, and I spoke on AI and its impact on the sourcing and recruiting industry. And the MC that was scheduled to MC there, caught Covid, so they weren't able to attend. So they said, hey, Jim m, you're here. Would you mind? I said, sure, why not? Like the old days. Jump right in, had some fun, had some laughs, gave my presentation. People seemed to like it by virtue of them still being awake when I was done. And, they said, hey, that was great. Would you care to do that full time? I said, sure, why not? So they brought me over, and it's been a love story ever since.

Matt Burns: When I think about that particular love story, I know you're also party to a lot of conversations with talent leaders around the world. I'm curious, for those who maybe aren't familiar with the day in the life of a talent professional, just how much have things changed in the last four years?

Jim Stroud: They change every five minutes, it seems like.

Matt Burns: Right.

Jim Stroud: One thing, a couple of things that are very stark in my mind. One is this war between return to office and work from home. When Covid hit and people were forced to work from home, it was sort of a, double edged sword. People didn't like it at first because it was so confining. You want to see other people, you almost feel like a prisoner. But after a while, people got used to it. They liked it. They liked not having to have a commute every day. And they got used to it rather quickly, and they were able to prove that they could still maintain a level of productivity. So from the worker perspective, hey, I can work in my pajamas, I can get the work done. I still have time to deal with the kids and to get my coffee and just sit back a little bit more. I don't have to worry about driving in traffic for 2 hours. I love it. Managers, they didn't know how to deal with it. Initially, they were dealing with, how to manage people at home. Were they working? How do I know they're working? Maybe I should install spyware inside, their computer. In, some extreme cases, they would say, some managers I've heard would say, hey, when you're working, why don't you just turn your webcam on and just leave it on? So I know that you're there, and I know that you're actually doing stuff. I've heard some really wild stories, around that. Some managers adapted and said, you know what, I'm good with it. Just give me your work, and as long as it's here when I need it, it's fine. I'm really going to look only at the results of the work, and that's going to prove to me that you've been working because you're able to deliver the work that I asked for in a timely fashion. Other managers are still like, no, I need to see you in an office, because if you're in the office, people are going to collaborate. People are going to, collaborate more. You're going to have more interaction, which will spark debate, which will spark innovation and kumbaya and all that kind of stuff. So you have, those different dynamics all at play, and then on an even higher level, you have people in the c suite going, how much are we spending on office space? And no one's there. Can we get out of this lease? How much is this costing us? Okay, we need to get people back here to justify this expense, or we need to get out of this lease, which is going to cost us ungodly amount of money that we really don't have. And we're already uncertain about this economy. So all the dynamics around return office and work from home, that's one thing that has really shifted a lot in my mind, another thing which has also, been a huge impact. Just as much, if not greater, I think greater to an extent, is AI. Just saying AI makes some people anxious, and it makes some people excited and happy. And, I generally hear a couple of questions when people ask me, about AI, they ask me, well, how soon will AI take my job away, and how much money can I save with AI? How will it impact my workforce planning, all that kind of stuff? It is a specter on the world of work that will not go away ever again. I mean, the world has changed. I remember when I first, I'm rambling here, which I guess is good for a podcast, but I remember when I saw the Internet for the very first time in the 90s, right back when american line was giving dischets out like water. And when I finally logged into, was it american line? Compuserve something. Global network navigator. That was my first Internet email. Yeah, global network navigator. So when I first logged into it and saw what was available out there, the first thing that popped in my head, I remember distinctly, the whole world has changed. Nothing is the same anymore. It felt like riding horses all your life, and then somebody brings out the car and you're like, whoa, that's a car. We won't need horses anymore. Or at least we won't use them as much as we did. When I saw Chachi Bt, early this year, January, which is amazing to me, that has only been like a year. I remember that same feeling, like, wow, the whole world has changed. And so AI's impact on the workforce, well, the society overall, but the workforce is another sudden, shift in how I think the whole world has changed over the past few years. people are concerned about losing their jobs. Companies are wondering, can I save money? Companies are wondering. Some, companies may be wondering, are they going to stay in business? Because when you have AI doing all these things, you have all these AI tools. It's like you don't have to worry so much about if you are a Google wondering so much about what Bing is going to do, but now you're wondering about everybody who has access to all these wonderful tools. So some ten man operation or 100 person, operation could give you some serious competition and chip away at your shareholder value, whatever. so it's just amazing. My head just swims on all that.

Matt Burns: Hey, everyone, it's Matt here. I hope you're enjoying today's conversation. And before we continue, I want to update you on my latest creative project this week at work. Every Friday at 07:00 a.m. Pacific standard Time. That's 10:00 a.m.. Eastern. And 03:00 p.m.. GMT. My good friend Chris Rainey of HR leaders and I discuss the latest trending topics on the minds of executives globally. From organizational culture to technology and the future of work. We cover it all, and we invite.

Matt Burns: Some of our favorite colleagues to join.

Matt Burns: Us, from Dave Ulrich to Whitney Johnson and executives from iconic brands such as NASA, Krispy Kreme, and WebMd. What can I say? We like to keep things interesting. And if you've been following us for a while, you'll no doubt recognize the fun partnership Chris and I have developed over years. Podcasting together. We're not afraid to be real, share our own challenges, and ask the tough questions. Joining well, that part's easy.

Matt Burns: Follow me on LinkedIn.

Matt Burns: Click the bell icon on the top right of my profile and you'll get notified when we go live. And now back to our discussion.

Jim Stroud: And then I think is that as much as AI has impacted everything, especially in world recruiting, in a lot of ways I think it's overblown. I think some people are worrying and are anxious a bit too much. A lot of things could happen. But because I'm cynical in my old age, I can think of a lot of reasons why it won't happen and blow up everything as much people think it will. I'm going to take a breath.

Matt Burns: So, you know, the number one rule of podcasting is when the guest is going, let the guest so, Jim, I'm happy to let you do your thing and so much good stuff in that you and I get a lot of the same questions. So people come to me pretty frequently now and say, matt, how is AI going to affect my role? And I could be a recruiter or a talent professional, or I'm a chro, or I'm even a CEO of a small company. And my answer has been pretty consistently, the chances of you being replaced entirely by AI are very slim. The chances of you being replaced by somebody who uses AI are very high. So it's about to your point, it's another overlay on society. You think about electricity, the world was never the same. the Internet, the world was never the same. And now AI, the world's never the same. And I think what people don't perhaps fully grasp yet is just how intertwined it's going to become in everything that we do. In the same way your bluetooth hooks up your speakers and your phone and your app, it's going to have that level of connectivity and the level of support. Through more concierge type query services, you'll be able to interact with your bank in a completely different way, and interact with your credit card company in a completely different way. And you pay your utility bills in a different way, and aggregate your bills and analyze your expenses and figure out where you have unnecessary fees that you're paying. And the level of intelligence that's going to provide to you with currently under leveraged information that we're all sitting on is going to be absolutely massive. Additionally, it's going to, as you pointed out, free us from the mundane manual stuff that nobody likes to do. I've never in my 20 years being in HR, ever talked to a talent professional who said, matt, I love nothing more than filling out a spreadsheet and making sure that file is just in tip top shape. Like, people want to interact with people, they want to solve problems, they want to feel good and feel like they're contributing to something that's bigger than them. And when we can put AI between us and that manual administration, it's going to free up people to do that work. Now, my fear, like you, is pretty similar in that in a situation where an organization can bring in AI and achieve efficiencies, I hope that some of those efficiencies that are realized are reinvested back into the workforce in the form of training, or maybe not asking people to work 80 hours a week, or maybe having a day off every now and again, or paying people benefits or things like that. My fear is it's going to be a spectrum. Some organizations will do that and create better work, and others will use it and exploit that technology and reduce their workforce in a consistent way so they can reduce their overheads and make more money. So I think it's going to be a bit of everything. But one thing that I think is really important to point out in this conversation is that talent professionals are going to be able to decide which of those models, and it's not binary, but which of the organizations that they want to support going forward. Because what is also a key factor is that, demographically speaking, there are more people leaving the workforce every single day today than are joining it. And it's going to be that way for the next 15 years. So talent has never been more valuable, and, it will only increasingly get more valuable in the future. Whether it's replaced by AI or by another source of talent. Organizations are going to have to be mindful of what's their strategy going forward. It's going to be a limiting factor in a way that it hasn't been in previous generations, where you could simply turn over people and bring somebody else in new. You're going to hit a ceiling at some point with talent in some organizations, and that's a different reality for a.

Matt Burns: Lot of big companies.

Jim Stroud: As you say that, I was thinking that the recruitment industry overall is like a microcosm of how AI will impact society overall. I was thinking about, actually something that I was dealing with not too long ago, where you have all of these AI sourcing tools, right? Initially, when I got into sourcing, when you found people, you did a search online through, job boards, or you look for people's resumes on their websites, or you do a boolean search in Google and Bada boom, bada bing, a resume comes up. Now, you have so many sourcing tools out there that it doesn't take, a scientist or a very experienced sourcer to find the perfect candidate or to find candidates out there. It's getting easy and easier to press the button and boom, you got the resume of somebody, or you have information on a passive candidate. And so I see that being a really big impact on sourcing and recruiters because they'll say, okay, why do I need a sourcer anymore? Or, why do I need a recruiter? Some managers might say, because I can press a button and boom, the resume of somebody I want pops up. Well, to that I say, and this is why I say such a microcosm, is that although the machine is going to make it easier to find people, you still have to have someone to actually talk to that person. And there are AI out there that can actually talk to people. I know that. But you're going to need someone to say, hey, I saw your information online. You have the look that I want to know better. I want to tell you about this new job in a new state. I want you to uproot your family and move from Seattle to Florida. And I want you to do the same thing you're doing over there for less money. And I want you to relook at all your family, and I want you to do it within a month, because that's the time limit I have to fill this role. I don't think AI is going to do that. So many different variables are in that situation. you got to know how to approach this person. You got to know how to talk to them. You got to sort of, sort of feel them out. Not only do you have to, recruiters know this, not only are you talking to that candidate, but you're also, in a way, talking to that person's spouse. You're talking to their kids. What kind of argument can you make to say, hey, you're comfortable in Seattle, you've been there all your life, but I want you to do something totally different over here. AI is like any other technology is programmed for every situation that somebody can think of, but there's always something new and different out there that you did not take into account when programming. It's sort of like, almost like with traffic. You have traffic lights, so you have street lights and signs and these people who plan out traffic maps and red lights. And that kind of stuff, they plan for every single contingency as possible. But every day there's an accident somewhere, multiple accidents on every highway somewhere. So you can plan for everything possible, but there always will be an unpredictable, unknown variable that will come into play, and human beings can react to that. Human beings can learn from that on the fly and keep on going with machines. You got to take that to account, program it in, start over, and then hope that something new won't happen that you had to program for, but inevitably it will. So you will always need human beings in the loop, no matter, how proficient a, machine may be.

Matt Burns: Long rant no, I think that's absolutely true. And I think as we put technology again, as its interface between us, it's going to place a priority on human interaction, and that's changing. I mean, I think back to when my mom used to go to the bank and want to engage with a teller, because for her, a financial transaction was very personal. And the idea of giving that power over to a machine felt very. There was some risk in that. And now she's, of course, very adept at using her phone and all the things, but there was a transition to that, and I think there's going to be a similar transition here when people have to turn over some responsibility to the interaction. I think a lot about the candidate experience nowadays and think about the opportunity for us to better nurture people in the process. I think, Jim, we've all heard the horror stories of applying for a job and hearing back maybe 18 months later that you weren't successful. If you hear back at all. Yeah, and I get it. Organizations are inundated with applications, many of which are not of a qualified nature, and it makes it challenging to undertake the activity of responding. It's why we invented ATS platforms and to hopefully automate some of those responses. But still, things fall through the cracks. but additionally, on the other side of the coin, we do have key talent that we want to make sure stays engaged. That is likely considering other opportunities in the marketplace. That is also, to your point, weighing a potential relocation or a shift in career or shift in trajectory. And the more that we can interact with that individual, either passively or actively, the more likely we're going to be able to work towards, a solution that everybody wants. And I think about the old days of just emailing people company information on a regular cadence, but I think now about it being more of a chat bot orientation, a, concierge type service where if I'm a candidate, I can ask questions about the company's financial performance and what their record is on health and safety and environmental standards, and I can ask about what my potential um.org chart could be if I was take this role and I could find out where I'd sit in the office and all those types of things that traditionally end up on somebody's desk, but may not be sourced with level of urgency that is commensurate with a candidate. because again, we're working with multiple files in multiple cases and we're trying to do our best, but the ability to extend and provide a greater level of service opens up opportunities to create a more human experience, even if the technology is the primary interface for it. So that for me, it gets really, really exciting. And I think, to your point, allows us to reinvest that time where it actually matters, which is how do we build those lasting relationships? Because sourcing a, talent is one part of the role. But you and I both know that we have to then onboard and orient that talent to the organization. And that's a step that often gets left behind pretty quickly in an organization. Bums and seats and we lose good talent because they feel disconnected or perhaps disappointed in what they were told and what they're actually realizing. And maybe they don't feel as, tightly woven with the organization as they would if they were in the office five days a week. So all those things place a greater premium on onboarding orientation, which to me again, is an opportunity for us to shift our emphasis in that talent cycle to where we can really add value from a human to human perspective.

Jim Stroud: Yes, definitely, definitely. One thing I'm hoping that this whole AI will bring about is a new era of personalization. I've, applied for different jobs over my career and one thing that really bugs me is when I get a job sent to me, an alert for a job that has nothing to do with my skill set whatsoever. Right. It's like being a Java developer and getting an alert for a barista from Starbucks or something. That, yes, that's a different kind of java. That's the one, I'm dealing with. To your point. Also too, I also would like hope to see in 2024 and beyond a higher level of personalization. Generally, when I think about applicant tracking systems from a job seeker perspective, I'm looking for a job. I give you my resume. Either I'm a fit or I'm not. And five minutes later if I don't hear from you, I forgot not even giving you my resume unless I'm really into the company. the company isn't thinking about me. Poof. maybe one day, possibly, you may reach out to me. What I hope to see in the future is personalization, maybe along the lines of what Netflix can do with his recommendation or Amazon can do with his recommendation. But for that, the, ATs, AI, whatever we want to call it, I'll just say the machine to sort of encapsulate all the technology. The machine should be able to prognosticate a little bit more about where I am, right? So let's say I give my resume and I am a junior software developer working for radio. Ah, Shack. Really? Date myself.

Matt Burns: Blockbuster.

Jim Stroud: Blockbuster, yeah. Save time, period. All right. And so news gets out that Radio Shack is going away of the dinosaur. So the AI looks inside of the ATs and says, oh, I see, jim, you work at Radio Shack, at least when you apply for a job here. I heard from the news that Radio Shack is going away. Would you like to talk about some opportunities, here at, company x? Because I sense through my AI spider sense that this is a good time to talk to you. Right. Or maybe a situation where, hey, Jim, you applied for a job here two years ago, or six years ago, when you were a junior software developer. Assuming that you remained in the IT space by now, you are a senior software, developer. If so, can we talk about some senior software engineer roles that we have now that you were not a fit for when you initially applied? But, hey, it's six years later, so what do you know, right? Or maybe I can send out a message out to people and say, hey, it's been, three years since we last touched base. what are you doing with your life? Where do you want to go? Who do you want to be? What are you doing? how can, I help you of your career? Because I would love for you to work here at company x. Tell me what you want so I can be on the lookout for it. How much money do you need? Where do you want to live? That kind of thing. Our CEO gave a talk at the World Economic Forum about, I don't know, climate change, and he brought up how our company is doing these things to make the world a better place. And based on our last conversation, you mentioned in the chat bot message that you had an interest in saving the planet. Something like that. So I want to send you that quote from our CEO, because I know that it's on your radar. So mentioning it to you is just so you can keep us in mind as you plan your career. So I would like to see, or I'm going to predict, because hopefully someone just heard me say all that and they're going to start working on it, that interacting with, ATs is not a one time relationship. It's the beginning of an ongoing relationship. I, as a job seeker, I tell you what my interests are. I tell you what my salary is. I go beyond the job, of the moment. I tell you what I would like to do. Maybe I'll even tell you what my perfect dream job is. I say, you know what? when I grow up, I want to be a Victoria's Secret photographer, although my wife wouldn't let me, but that's what I would want to do. And AI said, hey, you know what? We just bought Victoria's Secret and we're looking for photographers. You mentioned jokingly eight years ago that you wouldn't mind being photographer. You want to talk about it? Stuff like that. That's the kind of value I would hope to see from AI, interacting with, being integrated with an ATS instead of just, I'm coming for a job. Did I get a job? I didn't. Okay. I'm not going to think about you ever again, ever, until I'm laid off another time. And it should not be that way. And with AI, we should be able to, at this point, have something like that.

Matt Burns: You, Jim, are the author of five HR related books. You've produced your own YouTube series, the Jim Stroud show, and also produced the Jim Stroud podcast. What inspires you after all this time?

Jim Stroud: Looking at things that are totally unrelated, to recruiting, or HR related topics and then somehow relate them in some way. Right. I'll give you an example of that. So one topic that has been sort of somewhat fascinating a little bit is transhumanism, which makes you think about dating, myself again, the $6 million man tv show. Right? For those who don't know, the $6 million man, he was, steve Austin. He was an astronaut. He crashed the earth. He lost his legs and his arm. And the US government invested $6 million into him. They gave him bionic parts. So when he finished with him, he could run at 60 miles an hour. He could lift up a ton of weight, literally a ton of weight with his right arm. And he could also see 3 miles ahead through his bionic eye. Great tv, at least when you're a kid. When I was a kid, right. And so, there are people m now who say, you know what, I want to use technology to augment my physicality. I want bionic arms, or I want a bionic eye, even though I have a perfectly healthy eye. I, want to merge with technology so that I can become a superhuman. Right. So there are people who are working on that. So when I see that, I think, okay, that is the next level of potential discrimination. Right. This is a modern version of that, of what I mean. So Elon Musk has a company called neuralink, which is putting, like, little brain implants in your head, right? And the way he's using it is that you put these brain implants in your mind, you become one with the matrix. And if you're a paraplegic person, then you're able to move your legs again, because the wiring inside your body gets augmented by the technology. And you're able to move a leg or move an arm, or as, he's experimenting with now, you're able to manage, a computer system, or you're able to talk on the phone by sending messages from your brain through the matrix to the tool that you're doing. Right. So that's becoming a possibility. probably. If technology goes the way it's going now, it'll be reality in a few years or less. So let's say that in the future, Fox News, CNN, or some other big outlet is hiring a, social media manager to manage their news properties on Twitter or whatever they call it x or whatever they're going to call it by then, right? So you have two people applying. One person is, let's say they are a gen zer. They grew up on TikTok and all these things. So that would be like a logical hire for somebody. You grew up with this stuff, so you're probably going to be really good. The other person is someone who has the neuralink implant in their brain, and they can connect with their phone, with their mind. And so news is a very fast paced system. Do you hire a person who is good with social, media from what you can see, or do you hire somebody who's also good, but they can send a message to their Twitter or to your Twitter or to your Facebook using their mind? So they're at a political debate, and somebody says something off the wall. Somebody is typing right away, furiously, to get the comment out. The other person is just thinking with their mind. This person just said this, that, and the other, and boom, it's on there automatically. So is the person with the neuralink more qualified than the person who doesn't have all the technology in their brain? Some companies may say, you know what? The person with the technology in the brain, that's the person I want, because they can do all this stuff. And so companies say, you know what, I want somebody with neuralink in their brain to be, the social media manager and the people without it saying, well, you're discriminating against me because I'm not getting all that stuff in my head. I don't care what it does. And you're discriminating against me because I don't have all the technology in my head. And I think things like that potentially could happen because another long grant, it sort of happened before. A, real life example is Oscar Pistorius. Don't know if you heard of him, but if you are into track and field, you probably heard of this guy. He has, blades instead of legs, because I, forgot how he lost his leg, but he has like, these artificial limbs on his legs. And so he has broken speed records against people who don't have blades, who are just, regular people, right? Who don't have the augmented, legs. And so some of the people that he have raced against has said, sure, he's breaking all these speed levels because, look, he has these blades instead of legs, so the technology he's using is making him a faster runner than me. And so people were saying his record should not be the official race time because the technology he's using with his augmented legs is giving him an unfair advantage. So, that's a real life example that I can think of, about that. But, yeah, that's another long rant. But yeah, I think about things that are totally off the beaten path. And I say, can this be related to HR or recruiting in some way? And that's what gets me going.

Matt Burns: Well, I think it's very much with the trend in the sense that one thing we've talked about, artificial intelligence, I think, ad nauseam, hm, in this conversation. But it's one of those things that binds and connects things that previously weren't connected. And that's a role that you've played throughout the course of your career, telling stories and creating content and starting and continuing conversations, because a lot of things that seemingly are in different silos actually should be connected. And actually we're better for it when things are better connected. to bring things down and distill things to the most basic analogy back to our talent lifecycle, when the hiring manager, the talent sourcing individual, the recruiter, and the person holding the purse strings in the organization and the HR professional all are in sync. We're going to have a good candidate experience and a good onboarding and hiring experience. Those things don't always happen. And now we have tools around us that are going to be able to fill in some of those gaps that previously existed. to your point, when we bake in that intentionality, I also think that because of the rate of innovation and change, we can all benefit from looking outside of our purview. And I'm guilty. Like everybody else, I may know a lot about HR, technology and AI and virtual reality, but do I know a lot about literature? Do I know a lot about art from the 16th century? I'm trying to find more sources of information myself. And I think another useful exercise as we evolve is we can learn things from other disciplines. We can learn things from marketing when we're in recruitment and sales when we're in recruitment. We can learn things from technology. And I think about your experiences with Google and other large organizations in the tech industry. How much has the candidate experience evolved because of the tech particular industry and what they brought to the talent conversation at a time when they were very much in a war for talent, fighting over developers, fighting over those key people to be able to scale those unicorn companies? In a lot of ways, we've learned a lot from those industries and brought them into other places like retail and transportation, but only after certain industries innovated. So I think part of that is asking questions that you wouldn't normally ask and looking for sources of information that you wouldn't normally find. I'm curious, Jim, as you do that, where are some of the places that you go to for information?

Jim Stroud: a lot of places, I go to newsletters. There are hundreds, thousands, millions of newsletters out there. And I will go through Substac, do a search on AI, for example. And I will subscribe to those newsletters. so that I don't bomb my email, I use this app called Stoopinbox, stoop inbox.com, and I subscribe to newsletters through the app. And so in my app I have hundreds of newsletters that I subscribe to. I will just sort of scroll through and see which story catches my eye and then, sort of go from there. Also read, a lot of Reddit posts. That's my guilty pleasure. And I also am very fortunate again in my role as a Sourcecon editor to get a lot of information from the sourcing community and they share a lot of information on Sourcecon.com and in our Facebook groups and other groups that we have, there. So I get a lot of information that way.

Matt Burns: And what's next for you, Jim? It's 2024, right around the corner. What's next for you?

Jim Stroud: On my mind is just Sourcecon. I'm taking it to the next level. We, have a lot of interesting things planned. we have two conferences a year, and this next one's coming up is, in April in Orlando, Florida. So excited about that. But we have other conferences that we are planning in addition to that. Very excited. I sort of want to spill the beans, but I am not allowed to at this time. but if anyone is curious, please, by all means go to sourcecon.com, sign up for our newsletter and, stay informed that way.

Matt Burns: We certainly will. And I guess best way to get a hold of you is probably on LinkedIn.

Jim Stroud: Yeah, catch me on LinkedIn. Or you can email me. I'd like to think I'm approachable. Jim. Uh@sourcecon.com cool.

Matt Burns: We'll put all those details in the.

Matt Burns: Show notes of this podcast.

Matt Burns: Jim, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much for the time today and wishing you luck with Sourcecon and everything else in the future.

Jim Stroud: Thank you, sir. Much appreciate it.

Matt Burns: Ento HR is a digital transformation consultancy working at the intersection of strategy, technology and people operations. We partner with organizations, private equity and venture capital firms to accelerate value creation and identify the organization's highest leverage initiatives. And this can take place in many forms, from strategic planning and alignment to technology procurement, implementation and integration, along with organizational design, process reengineering and change management. With our proven track record of working with complex, high growth organizations, we provide a, lens that goes beyond the balance sheet, increasing enterprise readiness, resilience and value. For more information, check us out@bentohr.com.